Steam Boiler not Turing Off

[bonganim]

I bought a used La Spaziale Vivaldi S1 V1, and baffled by a few things. The serial number indicates that changes I see on a few forums should have been effected on this machine as well.

I am forced to switch the machine ON and OFF from the power plug. Even in 'Standby Mode', the boiler heats the water up. If I left the machine on Standby 24/7, the boiler is permanently ON. The only thing the "Boiler" button does is allow it to refill and dispense hot water. When the boiler is ON - indicated by the LED up front - the boiler runs out of pressure when steaming. It's when it's OFF that it goes like a steam train. There are no alarms indicating something wrong. The machine works fantastic, and brews killer coffee with no fail. Only if I could also get the preinfusion chamber as well.

I braved up and removed the panels to see if there is something amiss - as if I could spot it if it was there. Lo and behold, I spotted it. My machine has a pressurestat that I have not seen on any of the pics I see on the net. Even the La Spaziale Parts Catalogue does not have this. Coming from a 220Volt country, is this an add on for the increased voltage or is something? And also, not having heard another S1 before this one, is the machine as quiet as a Quickmill Vetrano?
I am just tired of always having to reach behind the machine to switch it ON and OFF when I could just be doing that with the control panel up front.
Things I noticed on this machine:

- The steam arm is the pivoting type. The serial number suggests it should be the swivelling type.
- The motor mounts are the 'new type' with the Brass nut.
- The control box is a black plastic casing - no 15/20 Amp switch on top.
- It has no fan for cooling the control box/Triac.
- There is a pressurestat – not sure if it’s an adaptation for 220 Volt regions.
- Under the control box, there is another terminal that’s open.

I have attached pictures of the presurestat and the “thing” under the control box. Anyone with a machine like mine who’s more clued up, kindly help. The tinkerer in me is dying to tinker, I’m just afraid I’d make things worse, and there is no support system in my neck of the woods.

[Endo]

All I can say is ....WOW! This is scary.

Seems to me someone may have destroyed the brains (and most likely the temp sensors, since that wire appear cut too) on this machine and simply by-passed it with a simple P-stat. So much for temp control !

You probably won't want to hear this, but I might as well be straight up.....I think you've been had. Someone creative added the p-stat as a crude "jury rig" setup that basically turns it into a regular p-stat machine . Hope you didn't pay too much.

If the controller box and sensors are still working you may be able to salvage it, if not, you're in for some expensive repairs.

[bonganim]

Thanks for clarifying the oddity on my machine. With a bit of time, I took the covers off and I see what you saw. The control board works. I can program the temperature and program the dosing. I unfortunately do not have the control board diagram. The one I have is in Italian, and I am Zulu – talk of multilingual disaster. At least my English is way up to scratch.
Regarding the quietness or lack thereof, I am happy with level from the S1. It beats my old Valentina vibe hands down.

I still have the old group boiler temperature probe. It was thoughtfully disconnected and stuck inside for ‘future use’. I just wonder if it would be possible to take the control board apart and try making sense of it all – my fear of messing it up is greater than my courage for now.

If parts access was a non-issue, I could easily get a new board and replace the old one. But, as I suspect everyone has picked up, South Africa still no La Spaziale service/repair center – as far as I know. I searched high and low and the market is flooded with Gaggia, Nuova Simonelli and other Italian brands. A lot of people with La Spaziale machines are faced with a strange challenge. Good thing the company makes robust products. At the moment my only consolation is the fact that I got my machine for the equivalent of $500US or thereabouts. And the fact that I manually have to turn the macine ON and OFF off the power plug is not much of a biggie.
So, my diagnosis is that only the boiler has been affected by this hacking. I just have to grin and bear it until a solution is found.

[Endo]

At $500, it's a good deal. A bit of a "fixer upper", but if you can fix the brew boiler temp probe, you may have found a bargain.

You can look at my blog and see how the probe is constructed.

http://cremina-endo.blogspot.com/2011/0 ... aling.html

It's housed inside a 4 inch copper tube that is brazed to the back plate of the heat element (just above the element). These thermocouples usually fail near the end, so you may be able to withdraw the old thermocouple from the tube and replace it with another. The thermocouples usually go for only a few dollars, and you can find them online. Then seal it back with caulking like the original. (If you are feeling adventerous of course).

I'm sure Chris Coffe would sell you a whole new heating element with a new probe, but another option may be to send them your old heating element and they can perhaps repair the probe (or maybe send you just the new probe with installation instructions).

Good luck!

[bonganim]

Thanks for your pointing me to your blog Endo. With nothing to loose, I will study everything and take the machine apart.

[Endo]

Just to be clear. Don't start messing with the controller box boards yet. From the looks of the machine and description of operation, it seems like the brew boiler sensor may have simply failed (note the missing silcone and electrical tape). Compare it to the photo on my blog and you will see what I mean.

I suspect they only ran wires off the main terminal block for the Ma-ter p-stat. Once you plug in the machine, the brew boiler temperature is now simply controlled by the p-stat. I'm not sure what is going on with the steam boiler, but from your description ("goes like a train", "runs when off"), I'd be VERY careful. Is it they are using the resettable safety cut-off to turn off the boiler at 130C???

I suggest you start by downloading the "S1 Owner's Manual" from this website and get familiar with the general wiring diagram in chaper 5.

[bonganim]

My mistake, the group boiler probe is connected. It's the steam boiler probe that's disconnected. The group boiler and the control panel all work with no fuss.

Okay, let me run you through what happens when it's time to have some coffee.

- turn the machine ON on the wall plug (the machine goes into standby but the steam boiler heats up)
- push the machine's power button, and the group boiler turns on and starts heating up to preset temperature. While this is happening, the boiler LED goes ON. I can draw water when the light is ON and the boiler can refill.
- when the boiler stands idle for a tiny spell - around 20 minutes - the machine gives me a "damaged boiler temperature probe" alarm. I then press the boiler button twice to reset it. When that happens, the group boiler switches off, but the steam boiler continues heating up.

If I want to keep the group boiler ON for a length of time, I have to switch the boiler off. Which is really ON. I have a suspicion that the boiler gets its power from a source not controlled by the controller board. Perhaps that's where the pressurestat comes in. As far as I suspect, the boiler control on the control board is not working. Seeing that the temperature probe is still there, albeit disconnected, I wonder if it will make a difference reconnecting it. I considered it but did not know how the pressurestat would react with this reconnected.

PS

I posted elsewhere on this site viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1616 after making an observation here:s1v2/S1vsVII.php

How difficult would it be to attach a PF gauge and house it neatly in the machine as per photos attached.

[chas]

The most likely thing to have happened is that the triac on the steam boiler control board blew out. The triac has a control input from the main controller board and an always hot AC connection on it's 2nd contact. The third contact is the switched contact which switches on the AC voltage to the boiler in response to the input from the controller board. When this blew out they probably took the always on AC lead and routed that straight to the steam boiler element. Actually they probably disconnected both the switched and unswitched power leads from the triac board and these are the two brown wires that currently connect to the pressure stat.

Without the temp probe connected eventually the controller board will alarm and turn off the machine UNLESS you press the Boiler button to turn off the Boiler function. I think this is what you are seeing. A disconnected probe represents an open circuit which is interpreted as a cold boiler. If this condition doesn't go away after a while and the controller board knows it is sending a steam boiler element On signal, the controller board assumes that the probe has failed.

There are only a handful of components on the triac board and the triac itself is the most likely culprit. There are two identical triac boards mounted horizontally side-by-sde in the right, lower front of the unit just behind the splash panel. The one closer to the front of the machine is the one for the steam boiler.

[Endo]

My mistake, the group boiler probe is connected. It's the steam boiler probe that's disconnected. The group boiler and the control panel all work with no fuss.

Ahhhh. Steam boiler. Now things are starting to make more sense.

Chas's explanation is the most likely for the steam boiler fix. But I'd also have a close look at the brew boiler as well. It has definitely been tampered with from what I see in the photo. Since you say the fan is also missing, I suspect the damage to the controller box was the result of water infiltration (either a big leak....perhaps left in a flooded kitchen...who knows). The brew boiler triac may have been repaired after first pulling out the brew sensor during troubleshooting, and the steam boiler was too damaged to repair, so they went with the p-stat by-pass method.

Isn't this fun!

How difficult would it be to attach a PF gauge and house it neatly in the machine as per photos attached.

I think it is easiest (and much more convenient) to simply add a gauge to you spare PF. Still, if you want a internal gauge, you can easily attach on by removing the small brass plug on the side of the grouphead (where the mechanical pre-infusion would go) and adding a gauge there. Here's a post showing how it is done.

viewtopic.php?f=26&t=1380

[chas]

Endo, he said it was a 220V model which don't have a fan.

[Endo]

Ahh yes. That's good news then. It's more likely the damage is limited to the steam components. Although I'm still puzzled about the brew boiler temp probe mods. I'd open up the brew boiler and check what's on the other side. It needs to be done anyway (to check for scale and any other surprises).

[chas]

... Although I'm still puzzled about the brew boiler temp probe mods.....

I hadn't noticed that before. It almost looks like the previous owner took the steam boiler temp probe lead and spliced it into the group boiler temp probe lead to try and fake out the controller board. If so it doesn't appear to be working very well since the steam boiler temp probe alarms still eventually occur.

[bonganim]

Whew... I guess I have to bite the bullet for now. My search for the workshop/repair manual and/or new controller board continues. Unfortunately, as mentioned in earlier posts, La Spaziale has no presence in South Africa. Other than that, this is probably the best machine I've had, ever. I went through a lot of espresso machines and still keep one for backup. Mated to good coffee, which is plentiful here, a good grinder and proper technique, it's going to take an extra long time to come up with a better competitor or replacement.