Silicone Group Gasket group buy interest

steve96822 · Post by **steve96822** » Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:55 pm

: Silicone gasket with portafilter locked position; 2014-03-25 08.21.10.jpg (65.13 KiB) Viewed 76870 times

: Silicone gasket in place, filter screen replaced; 2014-03-25 08.04.05.jpg (107.17 KiB) Viewed 76870 times

: silicone gasket in place, filter screen removed; 2014-03-25 08.16.38.jpg (104.16 KiB) Viewed 76870 times

: overlapping each other; 2014-03-25 08.02.19.jpg (89.86 KiB) Viewed 76870 times

: Silicone on right. Original rubber left; 2014-03-25 08.01.46.jpg (101.86 KiB) Viewed 76870 times

I have been researching this for a while since the rubber gaskets become hard, brittle, leak and must be replace fairly regularly depending on time machine is left on and use. One member that spent considerable time and investment making his own RTV silicone gasket reports more than 2 years 24/7 hour on time and still going strong.

I made a handful of high quality food grade prototype gaskets that I am now testing in my S1. It is working great.

Advantages to silicone are multiple. It is not subject to becoming hard/ brittle from heat, especially the temp of an espresso machine. Silicone bake sheets withstand oven temperatures, remain flexible and last for years to cite one example.

These gaskets should last a very long time, likely and realistically multiples of standard rubber gaskets.

In order to produce significant quantities for a group buy I would propose;

100 members 8.00 + shipping

200 members 7.00 + shipping

300 members 6.00 + shipping

Shipping can be done in the most economic fashion, mailed in an envelope as these are not fragile. Perhaps registered as to assure they arrive.

MDL · Post by **MDL** » Tue Mar 25, 2014 10:18 am

I would be interested in trying a silicone gasket.

- Are you suggesting making these yourself, or contracting them out?
- Have you discussed this project with Chris at CC? He may be willing/interested in supporting it and handling the sales/shipping.
- Cafelat is now producing silicone gaskets for a number of machines. Banding together to convince them to produce Vivaldi gaskets would be a good way to get them produced.

Keep us posted...

goodboyr · Post by **goodboyr** » Tue Mar 25, 2014 1:02 pm

I read that 53 mm are in the works at Cafelat. Just not sure of timing.

Post by **Ch83** » Tue Mar 25, 2014 3:00 pm

I would be in also

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chas · Post by **chas** » Tue Mar 25, 2014 3:23 pm

I wouldn't mind having two. Sounds like that might be a lifetime supply. Now I need to see if anyone makes a 58mm version that fits my LM GS/3. That machine seems to go through gaskets a little faster than the S1.

MDL · Post by **MDL** » Tue Mar 25, 2014 4:04 pm

On March 3 Cafelat posted about Marzoco gaskets on Home Barista:
http://www.home-barista.com/marketplace ... 73-20.html

"The Marzocco spec samples are in. They still need a bit more work to get the hardness correct, but they are coming."

steve96822 · Post by **steve96822** » Wed Mar 26, 2014 12:46 pm

MDL wrote:I would be interested in trying a silicone gasket.

- Are you suggesting making these yourself, or contracting them out?
- Have you discussed this project with Chris at CC? He may be willing/interested in supporting it and handling the sales/shipping.
- Cafelat is now producing silicone gaskets for a number of machines. Banding together to convince them to produce Vivaldi gaskets would be a good way to get them produced.

Keep us posted...

I had that same thought.

The question is how many S1's are out there? I'd imagineS1 represents a small % of market. Likely E61 is the majority.

Post by **RonMJ** » Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:32 pm

I'm in. S1 Dream T

steve96822 · Post by **steve96822** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:19 am

Out of curiosity

Can we get some consensus regarding the best color for gaskets?

I am looking into making them in quantity and be able to offer at a lower cost. I would pay for production and thus take some risk.

Post by **RonMJ** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 6:50 am

A light color so grinds and oil would be easier to see.

MDL · Post by **MDL** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 11:02 am

How about red? If you look at the Cafelat gaskets both the red and blue look pretty nice.

Someone should contact Cafelat and see where they stand regarding Vivaldi gaskets. They clearly have the production issues and hardness down and are producing gaskets in more sizes. While I appreciate your willingness to take a risk on production, why do so if someone else already has this moving in a commercial setting to handle sales and distribution?

chas · Post by **chas** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:09 pm

I wouldn't mind having two in red.

goodboyr · Post by **goodboyr** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:36 pm

Me too.

steve96822 · Post by **steve96822** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:19 pm

RonMJ wrote:A light color so grinds and oil would be easier to see.

Sort of my thought roo. Although it supposed to be food safe typically medical grade silicone is natural color, like a translucent gel. Likely the colorant adds additional chemicals.

One the gasket is in place it doesn't matter what color it is.

steve96822 · Post by **steve96822** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:21 pm

MDL wrote:How about red? If you look at the Cafelat gaskets both the red and blue look pretty nice.

Someone should contact Cafelat and see where they stand regarding Vivaldi gaskets. They clearly have the production issues and hardness down and are producing gaskets in more sizes. While I appreciate your willingness to take a risk on production, why do so if someone else already has this moving in a commercial setting to handle sales and distribution?

Interesting thing is silicone seems to work with multiple hardnesses. Shore 50, 60 and 70.

Why would I undertake "production" ? Give me something to do and keep me off the streets LOL

chas · Post by **chas** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:07 pm

Back in the early days of the triple PF the same thing happened. They were available for 58mm machines and we waited and waited. Then one of the S1Cafe members offered to make them for us by cutting two doubles apart and welding them together to make one triple. They weren't cheap but he sold so many he got burned out before everyone that wanted one got one. Same deal with homemade bottomless portafilters. Now they are available in production at reasonable prices.

We are in the same place with the silicon gaskets. Eventually we'll have production quantities at low prices but for now this offer is probably our only option for a while.

I'll be getting some (in red) for my GS/3 in about 10 days. I'll let you know if i think they're worth it. Of course if the only difference is how long they last, I may not know for 6 months to a year!

slo · Post by **slo** » Sat Mar 29, 2014 10:51 am

I was away on business, just got in...

I certainly will take a three, more if it can help with the process and cost optimisation.
Red is a good color for me too.

Even if they are very stable thermally they will still wear. And I am not about to change my machine any time soon!

chas · Post by **chas** » Sat Mar 29, 2014 11:25 am

I usually let my S1 gaskets go (within reason) until I start to see some leakage. When I then remove the gasket, I often find that the rubber is still pliable but has taken a set where the PF jams into it. So I just turn the gasket over, reinstall it, and get a few more months out of it. I assume the same thing will happen with the silicon gaskets.

My GS/3 is another story. Due the the hotter running saturated group, when I wait until I start to see leakage around its gasket, it is completely dry and brittle This stage occurs much faster than on the S1. So I am very interested to see how the silicon gaskets work there. I was also surprised to find that cafelatstore.com sells these gaskets for 1/2 the price of the standard rubber ones. Three for $8.10 or five for $12.75. Even with the $5 charge to drop ship them from Hong Kong, that's quite a deal.

MDL · Post by **MDL** » Sat Mar 29, 2014 12:37 pm

Late last week I sent a PM to Cafelat from Home Barista asking for clarification on the status of his production of silicone gaskets for the Vivaldi. As soon as I hear anything I will report back.

Meanwhile, as Chas says, this is a potential "bird in the hand" and I would be interested in participating.

chas · Post by **chas** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:44 pm

I received my three red silicone gaskets for the GS/3 today. They shipped from Hong Kong on Thursday. So 5 days including over a weekend is damn good. Now to let the machine cool down so I can install one and test it out.

Post by **Ch83** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 10:24 pm

Awesome let us know how they work out!

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chas · Post by **chas** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 10:33 pm

The silicone gaskets are a no-go. The normal gaskets I use are 6.5mm and these are 8mm. So too thick. I couldn't eve get the PF onto the group.

Post by **Ch83** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 10:45 pm

chas wrote:The silicone gaskets are a no-go. The normal gaskets I use are 6.5mm and these are 8mm. So too thick. I couldn't eve get the PF onto the group.

Well thats a bummer. Sorry to hear about that

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MDL · Post by **MDL** » Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:12 am

A number of folks in the Home Barista thread have sanded down their Cafelat silicone gaskets to make them thinner. If you look at that thread it will show and tell how they did it.

chas · Post by **chas** » Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:41 am

That sounds like more work than I am currently motivated to do. Since I have about a 2 year supply of rubber gaskets, I guess I'll hold off until they actually make some that fit correctly.

LaMarzocco does make a variety of gasket thicknesses including ones as thick as I bought. However, since they largely target a commercial market their theory is that with thousands of PF on/off cycles the PF "ears" will start to wear down. Rather than buy a new PF or possibly even have to rebuild the group head, you just buy thicker gaskets. I hope my GS/3 lasts long enough to need a thicker gasket!

steve96822 · Post by **steve96822** » Mon May 19, 2014 7:10 am

: S1; S-4crop.jpg (229.05 KiB) Viewed 76561 times

: S1 in stock; S-1crop.jpg (176.31 KiB) Viewed 76561 times

S1 Silicone Gaskets Available NOW

Please refer to my first post in this topic for more pics. Prototype S1 gaskets were black silicone however natural silicone was eventually chosen as to

# not add chemical colorant to a food safe spec gasket

# gaskets are notched to facilitate removal (if need be)

# facilitate visual inspection

# portafilter locks in nicely at 90 degrees (see pic in OP) can move beyond 90 degrees by approx 5-10 degrees but not necessary as seal is quite good. (on my S1 approx 5-6 years old moderate use original portafilter and original baskets

# backflushing intact with no evidence of water leakage

Availability; 3(three) S1 silicone gaskets shipped by registered airmail via Hong Kong Post or similar service 14.00 USD

Cost per gasket still competitive and probably still less than legacy gasket price before shipping is added.
More logical and cost effective to ship 3 together as the shipping weight allows
One gasket only plus registered airmail is pricey and less cost effective.

Am able to accept via paypal only at present time since I have been an ebay'er for many years(mainly purchaser not seller) and with a 100% rating. (steve96822)

Feel free to contact me steve96822@gmail.com

PLEASE NOTE; I have not listed this on ebay yet so please dont check ebay purchase on paypal. My paypal email is steve96822@hotmail.com

Please include a telephone number in addition to address as this is required by online shipping interface.

Thank you

slo · Post by **slo** » Mon May 19, 2014 8:56 am

E-Mail sent.
I will take my 3 gaskets.

I just installed my last spare. For me it means I will need a replacement spare in about a year maybe less than that.
If the Silicone really last longer, I will be set for many years to come!
Thank you for this!

chas · Post by **chas** » Mon May 19, 2014 9:10 am

I just sent you my PayPal payment.

Post by **Ch83** » Mon May 19, 2014 11:55 am

Ah man just ordered gaskets for my dream last week. I'll order by the end of the week though :)

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Post by **Ch83** » Mon May 19, 2014 11:56 am

Will pick up a set for my Dream T at end of week. Thanks for your efforts

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steve96822 · Post by **steve96822** » Wed May 21, 2014 9:14 am

I want to say thank you to those who give me their vote of confidence and ordered gaskets. They are all en-route with the exception of the very recently ones placed today, which will ship tomorrow.

I look forward to your feedback once you have them installed.

chas · Post by **chas** » Wed May 21, 2014 9:34 am

Steve:

With your contacts in this area, do you know if there are any silicone gaskets being made yet specifically for the LM GS/3. As I noted previously, I tried some 58mm gaskets intended for E61 group machine but they were too thick by about 1.5-2mm.

monkeybongo · Post by **monkeybongo** » Wed May 21, 2014 12:44 pm

Cool, I just sent you payment.

steve96822 · Post by **steve96822** » Wed May 21, 2014 11:01 pm

chas wrote:Steve:

With your contacts in this area, do you know if there are any silicone gaskets being made yet specifically for the LM GS/3. As I noted previously, I tried some 58mm gaskets intended for E61 group machine but they were too thick by about 1.5-2mm.

Chas,

Its interesting that you ask. A friend has a GS3 and inquired about the same. I have not yet tried one of my E61 silicone gaskets I have in her GS3 but I compared a stock GS3 gasket to mine. The ring dimensions seem a bit different (inner and outer diameters. The thickness of mine is a bit less though. Attached pic shows the black LM next to mine on a flat surface. LM is conical.

chas · Post by **chas** » Thu May 22, 2014 12:57 pm

Steve:
I purchased the E-61 gaskets no more than a couple of months ago and they did not have LM specific gaskets at that time. However, at your recommendation, I checked back and see that they do have them now. With shipping it is $15.80 for three. They have the special feature required to fit correctly as shown in the photo below, whereas the E-61 gaskets are flat on both sides.

BTW: If anyone (in the continental US) also has an E-61 machine and is interested in the 3 gaskets I bought for that group head, you can have the ones I bought at no cost. Just PM me your name and shipping address.

: gs3gasket.jpg (13.16 KiB) Viewed 76471 times

goodboyr · Post by **goodboyr** » Sat May 24, 2014 2:56 am

Paypal payment sent. Thanks for doing this!

goodboyr · Post by **goodboyr** » Sat May 24, 2014 2:56 am

Paypal payment sent. Thanks for doing this!

steve96822 · Post by **steve96822** » Sat May 24, 2014 7:42 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yt5DPRK36Hc

Video to show functionality of gasket

steve96822 · Post by **steve96822** » Sat May 24, 2014 7:53 pm

: lamarzoco_gaskets.png (71.44 KiB) Viewed 76425 times

According to La Marzoco official schematic there are 4 variations of gaskets, 2 of which are flat on both top and bottom. See attached

richardcoffee · Post by **richardcoffee** » Mon May 26, 2014 9:36 am

Ordering now. My black rubber gaskets sure leave some black residue when I wipe them with a q-tip. Thanks Steve.

Post by **cruiten** » Sun Jun 01, 2014 3:46 am

I just ordered a set of these gaskets from Steve and I have two quick questions for anyone who has already received their shipment:

How long did it take for the shipment to be delivered?
Where do you live?

Thanks

MDL · Post by **MDL** » Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:20 pm

My set shipped on 5/22 and was out for delivery in San Diego, CA on 5/31; I am away for the weekend but checked the tracking...

chas · Post by **chas** » Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:35 pm

Mine left HK on 5/23, arrived NYC 5/25, departed NYC for the 200 mile trip to MD on 5/26 and hasn't been seen nor heard from since. I expected them on Friday at the latest. I hope they show up this week some time.

richardcoffee · Post by **richardcoffee** » Sun Jun 01, 2014 2:04 pm

I ordered mine on 5/26 and have an order number but no shipping confirmation yet.

java man · Post by **java man** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 3:04 am

I've gone through 3 Vivaldi rubber gaskets in 5 years. It sounds as though one Si gasket would outlast my machine.

Post by **cruiten** » Tue Jun 03, 2014 2:05 pm

MDL wrote:My set shipped on 5/22 and was out for delivery in San Diego, CA on 5/31; I am away for the weekend but checked the tracking...

MDL: Did you ever receive your shipment? If you did receive it on May 31 then it took eight business days (including Saturdays) for your shipment.

chas wrote:Mine left HK on 5/23, arrived NYC 5/25, departed NYC for the 200 mile trip to MD on 5/26 and hasn't been seen nor heard from since. I expected them on Friday at the latest. I hope they show up this week some time.

chas: Did you ever receive your shipment?

richardcoffee wrote:I ordered mine on 5/26 and have an order number but no shipping confirmation yet.

richardcoffee: Any updates on your shipment? You might want to check your spam folder and look for an email where the subject line contains the words "Delivery List".

I placed my order on May 30 and I received an empty email message with a single Excel spreadsheet as an attachment as my shipping notice on June 2. I initially thought that this email was spam because the email subject stated something like "2014.06.01Delivery List" along with a strangely named Excel attachment and the body of the email was empty. In any case, the Excel spreadsheet contains the shipment tracker number but as of today my tracker number is not recognized by USPS. The spreadsheet item description states "silicone gasket" so I hope that this is a typo because the set should contain three gaskets.

chas · Post by **chas** » Tue Jun 03, 2014 2:39 pm

This thread was strictly for gauging initial buying interest. The thread for those that are purchasing, receiving, and commenting on the new gaskets is called "Silicone long life Group Gaskets Available". You will probably find most of your answers already posted in that thread.

Post by **cruiten** » Tue Jun 03, 2014 3:34 pm

Thanks for clearing that up for me chas.

I checked the other thread and I am happy to see that you received your S1 gaskets yesterday; I suppose that I just have to be patient until I receive mine...

chas · Post by **chas** » Tue Jun 03, 2014 3:42 pm

Mine took exactly two weeks from the date I placed the order and the last 200 miles took 6 days!