I have a Vivaldi s1, about 12 or so years old. I am getting the steady lit 20 and 21 lamps. I ordered a new group temp probe and copper sleeve from Chris coffee and replaced them. I’m still getting the error. I plug the machine in and turn it on and the boiler and 93 lamps blink like it is heating up. But after a few minutes they go off and 20 and 21 light up and stay lit. The group boiler is mildly warm at that point, but barely. Any suggestions?
Thanks!
Lamps 20 and 21 alarm
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- Latte
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:43 pm
- Location: Baton Rouge, LA
- chas
- Vivaldi Dreamer
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Re: Lamps 20 and 21 alarm
The error really indicates that the group boiler temp has not exceeded 60C within 5 minutes. This can actually be caused by a bad temperature probe, a bad heater element, or a bad triac board/SSR. The best way to tell if it's the triac board or SSR is to use an AC voltmeter to see if there is 115VAC across the heater element leads for the full 5 minutes before shut off. If that is OK, then you should unplug the machine, disconnect the leads from the group boiler heater element and then ohm across the heater element leads. It should read around 33 ohms.
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.25 (US 120V)
Mazzer Kony E, Customized Rocky
Hottop P/B
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.25 (US 120V)
Mazzer Kony E, Customized Rocky
Hottop P/B
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- Latte
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:43 pm
- Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Re: Lamps 20 and 21 alarm
Thanks for the response, Chas! It read 120 volts the whole time. The resistance reading was jumping all over the place but was usually around .4 kilo-ohms. So does that mean the element is bad? When I took the boiler apart to replace the temp probe it looked fine. No obvious cracks or anything.
- chas
- Vivaldi Dreamer
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Re: Lamps 20 and 21 alarm
If you have 120VAC for 5 minutes after you power the machine on before it alarms and turns off that means both the temp sensor and the triac board are OK so it must be the heater element. Also, your heater element resistance reading is not good. Unfortunately, at $88 the heater element the most expensive of the three parts. Plus you'll also need a replacement gasket for the back of the boiler cover. Be sure you have both parts on hand before you start the repair process.
Group Boiler Heater Element
Group Boiler O Ring Gasket
Group Boiler Heater Element
Group Boiler O Ring Gasket
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.25 (US 120V)
Mazzer Kony E, Customized Rocky
Hottop P/B
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.25 (US 120V)
Mazzer Kony E, Customized Rocky
Hottop P/B
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- Latte
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:43 pm
- Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Re: Lamps 20 and 21 alarm
Fortunately, I already have the o ring because I descaled and replaced it when I was doing the temp probe replacement. Weird question: probably makes no difference either way but does it matter how far down the crimped tube I place the probe? Does it need to be all the way at the bottom or is it irrelevant?
Also Clive coffee has it a little cheaper: https://clivecoffee.com/products/la-spa ... er-element
I don’t mind $50 compared to $2,000 for a new machine! Thanks again!
Also Clive coffee has it a little cheaper: https://clivecoffee.com/products/la-spa ... er-element
I don’t mind $50 compared to $2,000 for a new machine! Thanks again!
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- Latte
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:43 pm
- Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Re: Lamps 20 and 21 alarm
Chas,
Got the new element and installed it. It worked! Heats up like normal and seems fine. BUT now there is constant dripping from the group head and also a constant small water stream from the valve in the back right corner of the drip tray where the backflush comes out. WTH?!
Got the new element and installed it. It worked! Heats up like normal and seems fine. BUT now there is constant dripping from the group head and also a constant small water stream from the valve in the back right corner of the drip tray where the backflush comes out. WTH?!
- chas
- Vivaldi Dreamer
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- Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:52 pm
- Location: Central Maryland
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Re: Lamps 20 and 21 alarm
Minerals deposits have broken loose inside the group boiler, traveled toward the group, and are now keeping the 3-way solenoid valve from closing completely, You'll need to remove and disassemble it for cleaning.
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.25 (US 120V)
Mazzer Kony E, Customized Rocky
Hottop P/B
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.25 (US 120V)
Mazzer Kony E, Customized Rocky
Hottop P/B
- chas
- Vivaldi Dreamer
- Posts: 3050
- Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:52 pm
- Location: Central Maryland
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Re: Lamps 20 and 21 alarm
Before you take anything apart, you should try backflushing a few times with Cafiza. This might dissolve and/or dislodge the minerals without having to start taking things apart.
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.25 (US 120V)
Mazzer Kony E, Customized Rocky
Hottop P/B
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.25 (US 120V)
Mazzer Kony E, Customized Rocky
Hottop P/B
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- Latte
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:43 pm
- Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Re: Lamps 20 and 21 alarm
Thanks, chas. Fliushed a few times and now all seems to be working great. I appreciate the help.