God Shot just now!

For generic information on making espresso alt.coffee, coffee geek, Sweet Maria's web site and many others excel at this tutorial level of information. However, if you've been there and done that but have specific questions and concerns about getting the best espresso on the S1/VII/Mini-VII/Dream/Dream T, post those topics here.
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bobroseman

God Shot just now!

Post by bobroseman »

This week, since my guests have arrived, my coffee machine has been chugging out lattes at a rate that would make the neighborhood coffee bar envious. Put it this way, at $3 a latte, I could have paid for my machine this week.

Well forget scales and measuring to the gram. Man it was fill the portafilter to heaping and try to keep as much coffee inside as possible. I switched to another tamper with a short fat handle and a slightly convex bottom. I guess that I have been using around 20 grams per double. I also programed the doser for 2 ounces and let it run for the entire shot. I just adjusted the grind to get about 25 seconds for the pour.

With these adjustments, my life became a lot simpler. On top of that, I dropped my water temperature from 95C to 92C. My shots have been great and every time I collect a little bonus (in the form of a doppio) it has been as good as the local coffee bar. The last one was stupendious. So I think that I just proved to myself that there is such a thing as being too conservative about espresso.

I like my new routine so much better. And the results are great, to boot.

Bob
barjohn

Post by barjohn »

Two questions: What is a doppio? and Did the convex tamper make any difference?
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chas
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Post by chas »

barjohn wrote:Two questions: What is a doppio? and Did the convex tamper make any difference?
That would be me before my first two cups in the morning or...

Definition: A drink made with 2 shots espresso, and 1 shot hot water.
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.25 (US 120V)
Mazzer Kony E, Customized Rocky
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bobroseman

Post by bobroseman »

I really think the convex tamper makes a better puck. I know this is arguable and I've changed many parameters at once. But my shots are better. I was running the my water way too hot. I dropped it even more to 88C and like the shots there. I bought two pounds of beans today and as soon as my guests leave I'm going to see if I can close in on a good temperature.

I'm going to write Reg Barber and see if he'll give my RB tamper the George Washington's ax treatment. You know change the handle then change the metal. The handle is too long and the business end too flat.

Bob
bobroseman

Post by bobroseman »

barjohn wrote:Two questions: What is a doppio? and Did the convex tamper make any difference?
Just thought I'd throw this out for kicks.........

An espresso is a small amount of very strong black coffee. It is also referred to simply as un caffi. You can ask for a doppio espresso, which means double the amount, or a caffi lungo (translated as a slightly diluted espresso). If you want a long black coffee (as in a weaker, watered-down version), ask for a caffi Americano.

A caffi corretto is an espresso with a dash of grappa or some other spirit and a macchiato ('stained' coffee) is espresso with a dash of milk. You can ask for a macchiato caldo (with a dot of hot, foamed milk) or freddo with a spot of cold milk. On the other hand, latte macchiato is warmed milk stained with a spot of coffee. Caffi freddo is a long glass of cold, black, sweetened coffee. If you want it without sugar, ask for caffi freddo amaro. Gran caffi is a wonderful, almost bubbly, coffee made by beating the first drops of espresso and several teaspoons of sugar into a frothy paste, then adding the coffee on top.

Then, of course, there is the cappuccino, coffee with hot, frothy milk. If you want it without froth, ask for a cappuccino senza schiuma. Italians tend to drink cappuccino only with breakfast and during the morning. They never drink it after meals - 'How can you put all that hot milk on a full stomach?' - or in the evening and, if you order one after dinner, don't be surprised if the waiter asks you two or three times, just to make sure that they heard correctly.

You will also find it hard to convince bartenders to make your cappuccino hot rather than lukewarm. Ask for it ben caldo, molto caldo or bollente (boiling) and wait for the same 'tut-tut' response that you got when you ordered a cappuccino after dinner.

Milky coffee variations include caffi latte, a milkier version of the cappuccino with less froth. In summer the cappuccino freddo, a type of iced coffee, is popular.


Got to try that Gran Caffe.

Bob :)
barjohn

Post by barjohn »

Thanks for all the info.

Well after many tries at getting the "god" shot, I was starting to think I would be doing well to just get a good shot. My shots never were coming out thick and syrupy like I had seen on videos. They tended to be watery no matter what tamp, amount of beans or temperature. Playing with the pressure helped but I still was far from my goal. Then I ordered two double filters from EspressoParts-NW. Holy smokes what a difference. I can't believe that changing the filters would make such a difference. Suddenly my pours are like molases, dark with the occasional tiger stripe and the taste is like I remember from my times in Europe. Maybe I have changed something else that I am not aware of, but as far as I know that is the only change I have made. The baskets look the same but they sure don't work the same.

Anyone have any ideas? Is it my imagination?
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chas
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Post by chas »

What did you order? The SAE.34 double basket for Saeco machines?

Also, how about running a test for us with the old and the new baskets? See how long it takes from on to auto-shutoff for a double with just the empty baskets in place so we can see if the new one causes a measureable flow rate change.

Could be a pressure change at work during the pull.??? From recent threads on ac, to really check the PF pressure when pulling a shot we'd need to drill a hole througe the PF, install a needle valve and set the valve to dribble 2oz in 25 sec. That way you'd see an approximation of the real PF pressure when pulling a shot. That test with each basket would tell the real tale. However, the simple test I proposed will help point us in the right direction, I think.
Chas
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barjohn

Post by barjohn »

I called and asked for 53mm double baskets. They asked me what machine I had and I told them an S1. They said ok two 53mm baskets for an S1. I have no idea what I actually got except it says on the invoice La Spaziale Double Portafilter Basket Item code SP..16 $9.99 ea. Going to their web site I can't find such a part.

When I have some time I will try and do a flow test and see if I can measure a difference. I'll try your simple test since getting a needle valve and drilling the PF sounds like more trouble than plumbing in a gauge.
bobroseman

Post by bobroseman »

Chas wrote:we'd need to drill a hole througe the PF, install a needle valve and set the valve to dribble 2oz in 25 sec. .
Why couldn't we jusy unscrew the spout and scew on a needle valve set to dribble etc? That way we don't destroy a portafilter.

Bob
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Post by chas »

THe PF pressure guage already occupies the threads where he spout goes, so it's already been removed. I suppose one might be able to locate a T adapter that can screw to the bottom of the PF, then screw the pressure guage onto one side of the T and a needle valve on the other side.
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.25 (US 120V)
Mazzer Kony E, Customized Rocky
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bobroseman

Post by bobroseman »

I think that I've seen a picture of something like that on Coffeegeek. I'll try to find it.
barjohn

Post by barjohn »

I performed the test and here are the results:

New basket 13.0 sec till drip stopped
Old Basket 12.4 sec till drip stopped

BUT the real eye opener was when I removed the PF after each test. The old basket was dry, i.e. no fluid visible in the bottom. The new basket had about 1/8" of water in the basket and repeated swirling did not cause it to drain through.

What does this mean? Some kind of vapor barrier must form with the new basket and this is with no coffee. I imagine that with coffee in the basket the process may be more pronounced.

All I know is I can get honey like pours now and I couldn't before. I am using the same Vivace beans and the same grinder at the same setting and water temp is the same at 95. I have not changed pump pressure either.
bobroseman

Post by bobroseman »

Barjohn,

How about comparing the taste of pours from both baskets. Set them each so that you get a 25 sec 2 oz pour and give each a sip. Let us know.

BTW I'll be in W. Hollywood for a month (midAug to midSeptember), any chance of us getting together for coffee at some great LA coffee bar?

Bob
barjohn

Post by barjohn »

I don't need to run the test to tell you there is no comparison in the taste. Now the taste is like a rich dark chocolate. I haven't had time to play with all of the variables with the new baskets as I have been on travel. Next week I am on travel all week. However, when you see that deep dark pour that looks very thick as it pours straight down rather than curving in you know its going to be good even before you taste it. BB (before basket) I could not get that kind of pour no matter what I tried. I still can't believe that it could make that much difference but I don't want to push too far and jinx it.

It may be possible. I wish I knew of a great aspresso bar in L.A., but I can't say that I do. On the other hand I don't go to L.A. very often. The biggest difficulty is catching me in town. I travel frequently for my job. I spend almost as much time in D.C. as I do home.
Last edited by barjohn on Fri Jul 16, 2004 9:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
bobroseman

Post by bobroseman »

Well, that's good enough for me. I'm ordering some.

I'll be at the Broadcast center near the Farmers Market from mid August to mid September, I'll have my lap top so I'll be reachable. If you can make it, I'd love to meet you. If not, I understand. I'm not a big fan of driving long distances for a cup of coffee, especially in LA traffic, either. '-)

Bob
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Post by chas »

Guess I'll have to breakdown as well. They'll wonder why the sudden run on 53mm baskets!!!
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Post by chas »

barjohn wrote:I called and asked for 53mm double baskets. They asked me what machine I had and I told them an S1. They said ok two 53mm baskets for an S1. I have no idea what I actually got except it says on the invoice La Spaziale Double Portafilter Basket Item code SP..16 $9.99 ea. Going to their web site I can't find such a part.

When I have some time I will try and do a flow test and see if I can measure a difference. I'll try your simple test since getting a needle valve and drilling the PF sounds like more trouble than plumbing in a gauge.
One other question about that basket. Is it still as tight a fit as the old basket? Previously with Silvia and then Tea is was easy to grab the basket and pull it out. With the S1 I have to use a screwdriver to get the damn baskets out of the PF
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.25 (US 120V)
Mazzer Kony E, Customized Rocky
Hottop P/B
bobroseman

Post by bobroseman »

Chas,


Take the clips out of the portafilter and then you can just drop the baskets out into the sink. I think knock boxes are too violent. ')

I ordered a couple of filter baskets today. I figure that I can give them to Barjohn for xmas, if I don't get the same results as he did. ;-))

Just kidding, John. I'm looking forward to getting them some time next week.

Bob
barjohn

Post by barjohn »

I have been trying to figure out just what the difference is. One thing I noted is that the new baskets were much flater on the bottom. It appears also that the holes may be just slightly smaller but that could be my eyes fooling me. If I have time this weekend I will conduct some more experiements. I took a hammer and flattened the bottom of my original basket and I will see if that makes any difference.

I would like to know why if I can figure it out.
bobroseman

Post by bobroseman »

Well, I just received a new basket from Espresso Parts NW. It looks identical to the others in a side by side. I'll pull some shots tomorrow but for now I am over-caffinated.

Bob
bobroseman

Post by bobroseman »

So far I don't see a difference!


Bob
barjohn

Post by barjohn »

I did perform more experiments. The results were that there was a difference between the two baskets I purchased and also a difference between those and the original. The differences are not great, but enough to make a difference in the shot. I ran our of beans today :cry: but hopefully my new shipment form Vivace will be here tomorrow :D I will try again and see if I can still tell a difference.
bobroseman

Post by bobroseman »

I need to do a side by side comparison too. What I notice with my new basket is that grind setting vs pour time is the same. The taste of the shot is very good (but is it better than before? need to experiment here) and the color of the pour appears the same.

Taste is the key so the experiment continues.
wgaggl

Filter Basket

Post by wgaggl »

barjohn wrote:Thanks for all the info.

Well after many tries at getting the "god" shot, I was starting to think I would be doing well to just get a good shot. My shots never were coming out thick and syrupy like I had seen on videos. They tended to be watery no matter what tamp, amount of beans or temperature. Playing with the pressure helped but I still was far from my goal. Then I ordered two double filters from EspressoParts-NW. Holy smokes what a difference. I can't believe that changing the filters would make such a difference. Suddenly my pours are like molases, dark with the occasional tiger stripe and the taste is like I remember from my times in Europe. Maybe I have changed something else that I am not aware of, but as far as I know that is the only change I have made. The baskets look the same but they sure don't work the same.

Anyone have any ideas? Is it my imagination?
I just used one of these double filter baskets for the first time. And as you said: This basket makes a huge difference! Really unbelievable! Looking at it I see no visual difference to the one that came with the machine, but looking at the rich reddish-brown crema oozing from the spouts, the difference is absolutely phenomenal!

BTW: I also changed the pressure down from 9bar to 8.4bar, to reduce the chance for channeling. Using the PF pressure gauge is a science of its own, because air bubbles in the basket and pipe to the gauge tend to get compress first and expand when heated up, so you might get readings from 6 up to 12bar. What I did was rinsing the gauge under the hot water spout at the machine, then filling it up to the rim with hot water and locking it into the group. When engaging the pump for the first time the pressure might change, so I disengage the pump after a while and repeat the process several time. After a few repetitions (when most of the air is out, and the remaining air bubbles are brought to operating temperature) the pressure will settle immediately for the target temp.

Wolfgang
BobG

Post by BobG »

I bought one of these double baskets from Espresso Parts NW and did not notice any difference in either the quality of the pour or the quality of the shot when compared to the factory basket.

The pour is still tiger striped when starting out (rather than a dark black) and has a light tiger striping at the end of the pour. I have noticed no improvements when using these different double baskets.

Bob
wgaggl

Re: Filter Basket

Post by wgaggl »

wgaggl wrote: I just used one of these double filter baskets for the first time. And as you said: This basket makes a huge difference! Really unbelievable! Looking at it I see no visual difference to the one that came with the machine, but looking at the rich reddish-brown crema oozing from the spouts, the difference is absolutely phenomenal!

BTW: I also changed the pressure down from 9bar to 8.4bar, to reduce the chance for channeling. Using the PF pressure gauge is a science of its own, because air bubbles in the basket and pipe to the gauge tend to get compress first and expand when heated up, so you might get readings from 6 up to 12bar. What I did was rinsing the gauge under the hot water spout at the machine, then filling it up to the rim with hot water and locking it into the group. When engaging the pump for the first time the pressure might change, so I disengage the pump after a while and repeat the process several time. After a few repetitions (when most of the air is out, and the remaining air bubbles are brought to operating temperature) the pressure will settle immediately for the target temp.
I feel it's time for me to follow up on the above. Actually, I changed a lot since then and I am not sure what made the most difference in my case.
But now I'm sure about one thing: It's not that filterbasket. Actually, after having them cleaned together with the original ones, I don't even know which is which, and they definitely can't be told apart from the shots they make. Back then I must have changed a few other things too.

Wolfgang
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