...Or Behmor???

[chas]

After seeing discussions on the new Behmor roaster and the fact that it can do 1lb roasts, I checked the pricing out of curiosity. When I saw that it is only $299 and includes 3lbs of green, I couldn't resist!

Once I get it I'll do some side by side comparisons with the HT and let you know what I think.

[Zzyzx]

Chas,

I have been reading many positive threads on this roaster. What I have not read as of yet is it's comparison vs the commercial roasters quality.

Since you do very in depth reviews, I await eagerly your comparisons :D

[coffeeowl]

Great news!
then maybe my 'no hottop yet' will last a little longer.... :D

[Niko]

Sweet Maria's makes it sound like it has some significant limitations. I'm sure in the right hands one can get some great roasts out of it. I'm almost sold on it, only problem is I just bought the Hottop so I'll wait to hear more things. So far it's been nothing but fanboy reports (I feel).

[ebprod]

I've been using my Behmor for about a week now. I have done probably 12 pounds so far. While some roasts have been better than other, I have yet to have a bad roast.

I was using a SC/TO, but with winter coming to Minnesota, I just did't want to do this in the garage anymore. In comparison to my SC/TO, I have had several roast that were far superior to anything I had done in the past. And at this point I am still just learning the profiles.

If you let the roast go too far into the second crack, it will get a little smoky, but so far not enough to set off the smoke alarm. The one thing it doesn't prevent is the odors, which can be a little strong for about an hour after the roast.

Overall, it has been a fantastic roaster and I am very happy with it.

-Joe

After seeing discussions on the new Behmor roaster and the fact that it can do 1lb roasts, I checked the pricing out of curiosity. When I saw that it is only $299 and includes 3lbs of green, I couldn't resist!

Once I get it I'll do some side by side comparisons with the HT and let you know what I think.

[Niko]

Chas,
Did you get it yet?

[chas]

Chas,
Did you get it yet?

It arrives tomorrow!

[Niko]

Nice!
If all goes well for me here this week, I'm taking a stroll down to Santa Cruz to look at the Behmor with cash on hand :P
At this price I simply cannot resist, especially since I'm researching cocoa bean roasting. The Behmor fits the bill in more than one way.
My iRoar2 is getting nervous, it's about to get laid off and put on craigslist or eBay

Coming soon....
Niko's Coffee Roasting and Chocolaterium

[chas]

Niko, I assume you've already checked out this page:

http://chocolatealchemy.com/behmor-1600 ... a-roaster/

[Niko]

Yes, that's the exact website I was checking out!

It looks like they updated more stuff on it.
Cool!
That's my reason to the wife for getting the Behmor (heh heh), it's not like I can roast very many cocoa beans in the iRoar, right?

[4vDesmo]

You guys are killing me! I wish I could be a member of the roaster of the month club but I'm supporting other habits, I mean hobbies, as well. Someday I hope to graduate from the iRoast, but it continues to do the job for me.

And Niko, FYI, Santa Cruz may be a bit far for a stroll - I think you should ride your bike. Or drive. BTW, who's in SC that sells the Behmor?

[Niko]

Great Infusions is in Santa Cruz...
But I couldn't wait, they didn't respond to my email within 12 hours so I already ordered the Behmor through Sweet Maria's.
HEY!-Free shipping and 8lbs of free coffee to break the roaster in...I couldn't resist!

[Zzyzx]

But I couldn't wait, they didn't respond to my email within 12 hours so I already ordered the Behmor through Sweet Maria's.
HEY!-Free shipping and 8lbs of free coffee to break the roaster in...I couldn't resist!

[4vDesmo]

HEY!-Free shipping and 8lbs of free coffee to break the roaster in...I couldn't resist!

So what was it, the free shipping (across the bay, wotta bargain!) or the 8lbs of free beans that pushed you over the edge?

Cause I'm SURE you need the beans....

[Niko]

I don't like crossing the bridges here in the Bay Area...you need to set time aside for that. Plus they charge $4 (5 for the Golden Gate) and the gas is outrageous these days.
Yeah I really need more green coffee like I need a hole in my head but I'm not about to use my really good stuff to season a new roaster, then again I have over 200lbs so the Behmor is a good thing to have to thin the herd. I plan on doing about 20lbs the first weekend with it! I NEED to get rid of some coffee...

[chas]

Is the next big quake just waiting for your car to get on one of those bridges?

[Niko]

Is the next big quake just waiting for your car to get on one of those bridges?

OK, you got me...
I'll admit, they scare the crap out of me!
We had a nice tremor last month and instead of fearing for my life - I ran for the cabinet that holds all my iLLy collection cups, I held the doors closed so nothing flies out it literally rolled the entire house back and forth like it was on a waterbed.
Also, my father just missed those deadly accidents on the bridges back in '89. I hate bridges, maybe I should take up flying (like Steve) so I can avoid them

Did you get the roaster yet, Chas?
C'mon fire it up!

[chas]

It's here. Currently doing the initial specified "dry burn".

[Niko]

You are going to throw a pound in there today, I hope...

It's here. Currently doing the initial specified "dry burn".

I don't remember having to do a "dry" burn with the Hottop...

So how quiet is that thing? -It can't be much quieter than the Hottop already is since it's pretty quiet.

[coffeeowl]

Congratulations!

Wow :)
I did post here that you'd end up with three roasters Niko :D

I asked Joe Behm about the availability in Europe and he says first quarter of 2008. By the time (hopefully) I'll have enough budget for Hottop (at least the B) so probably I'll skip Behmor.

Good lucks,
Pawel

[Niko]

For some reason, I think you'll be better off with the Hottop (get the "P").
The Behmor seems more like a standard home roaster without as much finesse in the control department. It sounds like a fantastic roaster for knocking out several kilos a day

[Niko]

Chas, the suspense is killing me!
Tell us what happened...

[4vDesmo]

Hey Niko, how about CalTrain into the city, grab BART to Oakland, and viola - you're at SM's! No bridges!

Though there is the BART trans-bay tube.....woooo, scary!

Oh well, shipping is cheaper than all the tolls/fares/parking. Its just ssllloooowweerrr.

[Niko]

You forgot to mention earthquakes
Doesn't all that make you miss the Bay Area?
...Not!


UPDATE:
I'm dying where...the suspense is killing me!
CHAS, WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH THE BEHMOR?
..oops, sorry didn't mean to yell

[admin]

I gave it a 2nd dry humping to see if I could get all the remaining smells to outgas and then got involved in a different project and never got around to roasting today.

I'll be interested to see what impact the in-place cooling has on the flavor of the beans compared to the cooling tray on the HT. One good thing about the in-drum cooling on the Behmor is that by the time you remove the beans the entire unit is cool and ready to immediately start another batch. On the other hand, with the ability to do 1lb roasts I'll be less likely to need a back-to-back roast

Overall it looks like an HT mated with a toaster oven!

[Niko]

Overall it looks like a HT mated with a toaster oven!

Scandalous!

[chas]

It's finishing up the cooling cycle now. I started with 1/2lb of Monsooned Malabar, P2 profile, 14 minutes. It started 1st crack at 8 minutes and went into straight into 2nd at 11 min - no time in between. Then I manually started the 12minute cooling cycle.

The machine is quieter than the HT. Seems like the beans don't make as much noise sliding around in that heavy screen drum as they do in the Hottop's perforated steel drum. I never saw so much as a wisp of smoke!

The beans are out and they look great. We'll see how they taste in a couple of days.

I have have a cheapo vacuum cleaner I bought to suck the chaff out of the Hottop. With that it is as easy, if not easier to clean the chaff out of the Behmor. Otherwise, it would be more of a pain as there are more nooks and crannies to catch chaff in the Behmor. In spite of the chaff collector a fair amount ended up in the bottom of the roaster.

[Zzyzx]

I never saw so much as a wisp of smoke!

Really? Why do you think that is Chas. I have never seen a roaster NOT produce smoke. :?

[coffeeowl]

For some reason, I think you'll be better off with the Hottop (get the "P").

I'm quite sure of that, and convinced to getting the P. The full manual control on the B is not working that good as one could imagine, I've been told the heater response is not fast enough.

It started 1st crack at 8 minutes and went into straight into 2nd at 11 min - no time in between

The 1st and 2nd with no pause - I've read somewhere about it, probably it's common for that roaster :(

[Niko]

So do you like the roaster, Chas?

I noticed that Les (@Thor Tamper) is also selling the Behmor and he's listed it as a great "beginner" home roaster.

Now as for the lack of a long pause between 1st & 2nd crack, I guess it would require me to bend my butt over twist the dial on the Variac to remedy that. Works like a charm on my iRoar2, don't see why it wouldn't on the Behmor but you still need some sort of temp readout.
On the Hottop, I get a 3 minute pause between the very last snap of 1st crack and the very beginning of second crack and I can totally taste the difference once the beans have rested for 4 days.

[Weska]

I'm convinced that I have to try to extend the time between cracks. Should be easy enough to arrange manually--how else?--with my Gene, but it will take some experimentation.

A post by Ken Fox on home-barista.com recommends that kind of stretch. http://www.home-barista.com/forums/hope ... t5316.html Right now I'm running not much more than two minutes between. The stretch must be tried.

[Niko]

2 minutes ain't bad at all.
If you can squeeze 3 minutes out of it you should notice a different taste in the espresso. That should easily be accomplished in a nice manual roaster like the Gene.

[Niko]

OK.
Got the Behmor...
burning it in right now as I type this.
It's louder than my Hottop and it's smoking like a chimney!
I can smell all the manufacturing materials and what-nots burning up, I'm sure that's what the smoke is from.
The motor, for some reason I thought it would be quieter. Don't get me wrong - it's quiet, much quieter than most roasters out there just not as quiet as the Hottop "P" I operate several times a week.
..........
Behmor on again, 2nd round of burn in at the 1/2 setting. Less smoke, less smell and the motor seems to have calmed down a bit on the noise. It's still louder than the Hottop, I'm sure the Behmor is quieter in the drum department, like Chas said - you don't hear the beans rotating on that thicker steel drum. I think Behmor and I will get along quite nicely. I'm skipping right to 1lb after this 2nd burn-in.
As a matter of fact...I doubt this Behmor in Niko's house will ever roast anything less than 454 grams.
..........
OK.
Now I got 454 grams in it and going.
I DON'T LIKE THE DRUM at all in this roaster. Can't wait for the new smaller screen version because this screen is HUGE. I keep hearing small beans fall out and hit the bottom of the chaff collector tray....
pretty annoying but I guess that's what sorting the broken beans helps prevent.
It also helps to use better quality beans that aren't busted up.
..........
Conclusion:
5 roasts later, yes! One after another and so on...
I really like this roaster more now, the motor is now calmed down - just as quiet as the Hottop almost. It's a different frequency so the sound is about the same DB to my ears (trust me, they're sensitive).
After the 3rd roast, almost no smoke whatsoever.

.......... .......... .......... .......... .......... ..........

BEHMOR vs. HOTTOP
No contest, they're so different it's like comparing apples to oranges.
Batch Size: Behmor
Control: Hottop (by a mile)
Aesthetics: Neither, it's very subjective (can go either way)
Build Quality: Both
Quality of Roast: wait a few days
Value: Behmor
Fun Factor: Behmor is very fun but nothing beats the Hottop when the beans eject into room temperature (that is way cool!).
Cooling: Hottop (by a mile) but the Behmor cooling works, albeit slow it still does the trick and the best part is that you don't have to wait between roasts.

If you're shopping for your 1st roaster, the Behmor is it! A lobotomized fool depriving a village of their idiot can operate the Behmor with one arm tied behind the back. All one has to do is make sure it doesn't burn down the kitchen, don't ever leave the roaster unattended. But....in the right hands, the roaster can do some tricks. I also noticed that people mention this roaster can't do dark roasts....yeah, right. I could've carbonized my pound of Kenya this evening using the variac, another 4 volts and those beans would've been crying for mercy.

[chas]

Niko, tomorrow I'll be trying 1lb in the Behmor for the first time. Got any suggestions?

[Niko]

So far, I've been roasting only washed bourbons and other very low chaff beans. I'll try a dry processed chaffy one tonight with fire extinguisher on hand
I've read somewhere that the Behmor does larger batches better than the small ones, my one pounders look very even throughout

[chas]

I have a glut of Smith Farms Kona so I decided to try that. These beans seem to have a higher moisture content than most and take the longest to roast. So I decided to go for a worst case 1lb test.

I used P1/D profile for 18 minutes. I was down to the last minute or so and had only heard one crack so I started to add on the time until I maxed it out. I was down to about 30 seconds and had really only heard a few 1st cracks when I started to hear more cracks and realized they were 2nd cracks. I was about to hit the Cool button when the unit shut off with an E3 error on the display. As soon as the drum stopped rotating with the unit completed powered off, the beans jumped right into a rolling 2nd.

It took me about a minute of opening the door (smoke rolling out) and cycling the power a few times before I got it to come back on and get into a manual cooling cycle. I then looked up the code which means beans burnt or roaster over heated.

Bottom line after the roast is that the beans look fine - nice Full City color, no Charbucks. We'll see what they taste like in a couple of days. For future reference, I suppose I should try 12-14 oz of Kona on the 1lb setting and see if that works out better.

[Niko]

I should try 12-14 oz of Kona on the 1lb setting and see if that works out better.

I think that's a great idea. I have some really nice Kona, I'll try 400 grams to see what happens.
For the record, the 1st batch I ran was a washed Rwanda with a pretty high moisture content, I ran the roaster on AUTO by hitting the "1LB" button followed by START. I had to cut the roast with 33 seconds left (about 17:27 total roast time), the beans went directly from 1st to 2nd crack almost, the delay was maybe 10 seconds. If I take better notes, I can probably drop 10 volts on the variac to extend the time between the cracks (I do this on the iRoar all the time).

[ebprod]

I have found that P1 is too difficult to control. I have gotten my best roasts with P2 and P3. With P3, I have been roasting 1lb by adding the max time after the roast begins. If I add the time before hitting start the roast goes too far into the second crack.

-Joe

I used P1/D profile for 18 minutes. I was down to the last minute or so and had only heard one crack so I started to add on the time until I maxed it out. I was down to about 30 seconds and had really only heard a few 1st cracks when I started to hear more cracks and realized they were 2nd cracks. I was about to hit the Cool button when the unit shut off with an E3 error on the display. As soon as the drum stopped rotating with the unit completed powered off, the beans jumped right into a rolling 2nd.

[Niko]

I just tried the Kenya 12 hours out of the Behmor in a French Press. I can say that it definitely has a drum flavor, the brightness of this bean would blow your earlobes off in an iRoast.
Very nice flavors indeed, roast level was about City+ to Full City.

[Niko]

Just another update...
Roasted 2 lbs of Lekempti tonight, this has got to be one of the chaffiest bean on the planet. I wanted to see if I can start a fire or just give the roaster a hard time.
No problem.
I've never seen so much chaff in my life and the beans smell soooooo good out of the gate, a smell the iRoar never had with this particular bean. The vacuum needed to be emptied after this session. Chaff got everywhere! The roast looks awesome, a nice Full City.
One thing I noticed again about this roaster is that I can get charcoal easily and there's definitely smoke once it gets into 2nd crack, it looks like a Viking funeral pyre - a nice slow, thick plume of smoke builds up out of everywhere.

[hlsheppard]

Well, since having the first version of the i-Roast (and a still-functioning HW Precision! ), this Behmor has me truly intrigued!

The Hottop has always struck me as the "holy grail" of homeroasters, but the price has been prohibitive (at least for me).

This Behmor may strike the perfect balance... :)

[keithcutter]

I'm wanting to give some homeroasted coffee for Christmas gifts and just couldn't see roasting too many pounds of coffee with 8 batches per pound with my FreshRoast.

I'm also really intrigued to see the impact of a slower roast time (than 3 minutes!).

I ordered the Behmor from Sweet Maria's and it'll be here on Monday -- can't wait!

I'm really intrigued with the idea of developing my own signature espresso blend, but have soooo many questions. Is there a good primer on this topic that someone might recommend? I'm wondering things like: Are there some basic blending ratios that might be productive as a point of departure? Is there a basic methodology for developing a blend? How to maintain the essential qualities of a blend as chosen beans become unavailable?

Thanks in advance for any help!

[Niko]

There are no set rules to blending, Keith. Sweet Maria's has some guidelines to help you get started on their website.
I followed no such thing when I came up with my blend several months ago that just floored me with the results, I still haven't completely given up my secret yet
Anyways, start off with a good base - a nice bean that you really like that has a really nice flow out of the PF. Then add other elements as you work your way along, a nice Indonesian will add some spice whereas a monsoon will thicken the crema and so on.
Only use beans that you like, not ones you're trying to get rid of.

[hlsheppard]

Does anyone who owns a Behmor use it for espresso only (or at least, for the most part)?

I don't like my beans roasted past full city for most espresso (esp. not Malabar Gold!!).

As long as you don't go too deeply into 2nd crack - will the Behmor be up to the job? Opinions?

[Niko]

It's up to the job but there's zero control there to try and tweak the roast as it enters the cracks. I probably won't be drinking espresso from my Behmor because I don't want to blow a pound of the good stuff to find out what I already know.

[Zzyzx]

Niko,

Perhaps you can answer this previous question I asked on this thread.

Where is the smoke going from the Behmor? Is it just disappearing within the machine as it roasts? I have roasted with a BBQ drum roaster & Whirley pop into a city, full city roast and it has always produced some kind of smoke.

[Niko]

I think it has a little afterburner built in the muffler system exiting the back. I can post some pics tonight if you guys would like to see.
I see smoke, it's not totally smokeless but it's waaaaaaay less smokey than any other roaster out there.
I can probably capture that smoke on video and post it, it's very faint but it really thickens if you let it go into 2nd crack.

[Zzyzx]

I can post some pics tonight if you guys would like to see.

I can probably capture that smoke on video and post it, it's very faint but it really thickens if you let it go into 2nd crack.

That would be great Niko!

So, do you think that this thing can be used in the house under a regular exhaust fan over the stove without the smoke alarms going off?

[ebprod]

I use mine in the kitchen near the stove exhaust. If you stop at the very beginning of the second crack there is very little, or no smoke. After 15-20 seconds into the second there is more smoke, but even that is fairly tolerable. A good exhaust vent should handle it. I open a window to help out as well.

Just remember that no smoke does not mean no odor. You can definitely tell I've been roasting, but most of the odor is gone within the hour.

-Joe

So, do you think that this thing can be used in the house under a regular exhaust fan over the stove without the smoke alarms going off?

[Niko]

So, do you think that this thing can be used in the house under a regular exhaust fan over the stove without the smoke alarms going off?

ABSOLUTELY.

[Zzyzx]

That is fantastic, my roasting (BBQ Drum) profiles are very erratic due to roasting in different temperatures(50

[Niko]

Can't wait to hear about the taste that this roaster is producing.

You mean for espresso or drip?
I'm using my Behmor for drip (French Press) only at the moment. I can certainly try and make a roast for espresso and report back in several days if you'd like.

[Zzyzx]

You mean for espresso or drip?
I'm using my Behmor for drip (French Press) only at the moment. I can certainly try and make a roast for espresso and report back in several days if you'd like.

Yes Niko, for espresso. Specifically, how it tastes out of the Vivaldi II :)

[hlsheppard]

Thanks for the info (as always), Niko.

I just can NOT justify $900+ on a new Hottop (although I know that's the ticket for espresso).

Espresso is 95% or more of what I drink, so although the Behmor sounds like a great roasting value... not so much for the espresso hound....

[Niko]

Hey, we'll give the Behmor the ol' Vivaldi espresso run.

Stay tuned...

[Niko]

I can post some pics tonight if you guys would like to see.

I can probably capture that smoke on video and post it, it's very faint but it really thickens if you let it go into 2nd crack.

That would be great Niko!

So, do you think that this thing can be used in the house under a regular exhaust fan over the stove without the smoke alarms going off?

Here's the clip...it's a Yirgacheffe cooling down after a City+ roast and the smoke can be seen at an angle. The kitchen hood had no problem sucking it out of the room.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pvt1-aeyNxQ

[4vDesmo]

Ok, I see the smoke. But....where's the noise?

Aren't coffee roasters supposed to make noise?

[Bud]

It's up to the job but there's zero control there to try and tweak the roast as it enters the cracks. I probably won't be drinking espresso from my Behmor because I don't want to blow a pound of the good stuff to find out what I already know.

Niko,
There may be more control than you think. Some are already experimenting with opening the door for a period during 1st crack to extent the time between cracks. I havn't tried this as of yet but will after I'm more familiar with this roaster.

Also until the smaller mesh basket comes out in January, for those broken\smaller borderline beans, you can try to load your beans and spin & shake the basket a few times before loading that should help sort many of the beans so they don

[Bud]

Does anyone who owns a Behmor use it for espresso only (or at least, for the most part)?

I don't like my beans roasted past full city for most espresso (esp. not Malabar Gold!!).

As long as you don't go too deeply into 2nd crack - will the Behmor be up to the job? Opinions?

Howard, as long as you are NOT roasting to a very dark (Vienna+) roast, it will be fine for espresso. You can stop the roast anytime by just hitting the COOL button, but the roast will coast a bit as in any drum roaster-a little experience will let you know when to cool. Also, besides the 5 profiles, there are also 4 degree of roast settings (ABCD), there is a lot of flexibility here.

For further information, you can also look at the many users who are thrilled with this roaster, and what their experiences are on CoffeeGeek.

If you go for it, I don't think you will disapointed-good luck

Bud

[hlsheppard]

Thanks for the info, Bud. I need to get back to the CG forums. It's been YEARS since I regularly hung out there...

Time to check it out!

[Zzyzx]

Thanks for the video Niko. It's amazing how little smoke there is

[chas]

Yes, whatever the smoke suppression system is, it works very well. The last roast in mine was 1lb of Kona. With 30s left and just as I was reaching for the Cooling button, the Behmor turned itself off with an E3 overtemp error message on the screen.

Up until that point there wasn't a hint of smoke, but as soon as the device turned off, smoke came rolling out.

[hlsheppard]

Sweet Maria's has this comment about the smoke reduction system:

"The roaster has a smoke-reduction feature, a secondary ceramic heating element that treats effluence from the drum. The roaster isn't totally smokeless (the bigger the batch, or the darker the roast, the more smoke), but this feature greatly reduces the smoke output."

[Niko]

Niko,
There may be more control than you think. Some are already experimenting with opening the door for a period during 1st crack to extent the time between cracks. I havn't tried this as of yet but will after I'm more familiar with this roaster.

Not really...I'm mean not "really" in the sense of a Hottop. You shouldn't have to crack the door open and stand on your head and whistle 3 times over your left shoulder to get more control on a roaster. The machine's controls are very limited when compared to some other roasters.
I still like the Behmor, in fact I love it so much I'm walking away to do a pound right now! :D

[Zzyzx]

one of the most impressive comments I have read from reading Toms (Sweet Marias) description about the roaster is; "We spent time doing a variety of roasts, the full gamut of batch sizes and settings. We have been impressed in general, and find that it compares well to our Probat commercial roaster. (My sense is that if I had my old Diedrich roaster, I might find even more similarity in roast taste, since both are highly convective/radiant, whereas a Probat is more conductive in its heat transfer).."

For me, this is a big step in home roasting. I'm very excited to start hearing about the commercial quality vs the Behmor quality taste.

[Niko]

He also stated that the Hottop is very similar to his Probat shop roaster.
"The roast curve of the HotTop is very similar to my commercial Probat L12 roaster, but preset burner control makes for slower roast times, ideal for espresso and (as I discovered) surprisingly good for the lighter roasts too."

I personally wouldn't mind a little more smoke out of the Behmor, it would make for a more personal roasting experience. I don't roast by look, the sounds and smell of the beans is what guides me throughout a roast and one of these senses is removed with the Behmor.

[Zzyzx]

I personally wouldn't mind a little more smoke out of the Behmor, it would make for a more personal roasting experience. I don't toast by look, the sounds and smell of the beans is what guides me throughout a roast and one of these senses is removed with the Behmor.

Ya, that seems to be a bit of a bummer not having that facet of roasting.

Although Tom does provide valuable information and comparisons, I really anxious to hear from multiple sources regarding the quality of the roast as it compares to micro roasters out there.

[Bud]

Niko,
There may be more control than you think. Some are already experimenting with opening the door for a period during 1st crack to extent the time between cracks. I havn't tried this as of yet but will after I'm more familiar with this roaster.

Not really...I'm mean not "really" in the sense of a Hottop. You shouldn't have to crack the door open and stand on your head and whistle 3 times over your left shoulder to get more control on a roaster. The machine's controls are very limited when compared to some other roasters.
I still like the Behmor, in fact I love it so much I'm walking away to do a pound right now! :D

I think once you know the Behmor well enough you will find that it has much more flexibility than you think, Really! . Just by adding + & - time increments at different times before starting the roast or during the roast affect the profiles. Now you may be right about the control of your Hottop, and I thought about a Hottop also once,really, but I thought one shouldn

[Niko]

Every 20 roasts?
I have 30 on the same filter and all I did was flip it over.
Tom from Sweet Maria's also said you can wash them

The Behmor is nice, I'm already used to it and know all the buttons, it just doesn't have all the control I'd like.

[keithcutter]

Got my new Behmor and have done three 1/2 pound roasts in the last couple of days. I'm really impressed with the 'build quality' -- it's more than I thought it would be for the $$$.

The smoke supression system is very impressive.

The fins in the drum do a great of mixing-it-up for an even roast.

The level of programability is limited, but still impressive for the price point.

The manual is pretty good.

The killer for me so far is total failure on my part in achieving my target level of roast. I just can't see the beans sufficiently to know where I am in the roast process because of the glare off the chaf screen and drum screen.

[chas]

I concur about the glare. I am hoping after sufficient roasts the metal will darken and the glare will go away.

[Niko]

What?!
You guys roast with the chaff screen installed?! :?

...just kidding.
I accidentally roasted my 1st batch without it!
I was so busy staring at the screen in my hands thinking it's a hell of contraption, only then did I realize that the roast going on was missing "something".

The window is so DIRTY on mine that you'd need a diving lamp to see a turning drum inside. I roast by sound and smell...the Behmor kind of defeats one of those senses by cutting down on the smoke. I wish it would smoke more

[chas]

I've only done three roasts so far 1-1/2lb and 2-1lb. The thing I see on mine compared to the HT is a really anemic 1st crack. On the HT mid-1st crack is like popcorn at peak pop. With the Behmor the best I get is perhaps a pop ever second or two spread over 2-3 minutes.

[Niko]

You're right about that when compared to the Hottop.
The cracks do not aggressively jump out and attack.

How do the roasts taste to you?

[chas]

The jury is still out. I'll know better when I dig into the latest batch.

[keithcutter]

[quote="Niko"]What?!
You guys roast with the chaff screen installed?! :?

Hmm

I accidentally did a roast w/o the screen too; and it was great! Had my best roast ever in fact. Wonder if the down side of this is just a cleanup mess, or increased risk of fire. The cleanup I can handle.

I thought I saw somewhere a suggested 'cut-out' pattern for the chaf collector, but can't find it. Help?

I really noticed the sparcity of first crack with the Behmor. Felt like only 10% of the beans were quietly cracking which seemed weird.

With regard to results, I roasted 3/4 lb SM Monkey Blend to Vienna (P5, A, 1 lb) and let bloom in Vacuum sealed jar for 24 hours. It was the best result of my (very short) roasting career. Sooo much nice crema. Much more complexity in flavor and greatly reduced sharpness (which I like).

Took some SM Colombia COE El Caucho to a City+ w/ 3 day bloom and its much better than anything I could get from my FreshRoast.

Can't wait to try some Elephant.

[Niko]

I thought I saw somewhere a suggested 'cut-out' pattern for the chaf collector, but can't find it. Help?

You might want to try looking this up at Joe Behm's site...Sweet Maria's mentioned something like this also but pointed to the direction of the inventor himself on this one.

[Zzyzx]

OK, now that the roasts have had time to rest, how is the taste.

[Niko]

Flavor.

1. Hottop
2. Behmor
3. Gene Cafe and iRoar

[Zzyzx]

Thanks Niko.

In your opinion, how do the quality of the roasts from the Hottop & Behmor stack up against the commercial roasters.

After the first of the year I want to start getting back into home roasting again. Currently I have a BBQ drum roaster, but the quality does not match that of the micro roasters out there.

[Niko]

I like Hottop roasts very much, they actually last a long time much like a commercial roast. I've heard people complaining about how short the shelf life of a home roast is compared to commercial. I did see this with the iRoast2 a lot, everything I roasted was great but it really dipped fast after the 5th day. Seems that home roasts peak around the 3rd day maybe into the 4th where they are excellent. On the Hottop, I've let it rest for 7 days before using and the beans have this smooooooooth flow out of the PF and a super sweet mellow flavor in the cup, so yeah, the Hottop roasts are on par with the best commercial roasts out there in my opinion.

I'm going to start some heavy experimentation with the Behmor when I get some time in January. I really like the roast curve on Profile #2 but it's so automated that it defeats the purpose. My intention is to JACK the voltage with a variac to speed up 1st crack before the roaster automatically drops the heat, after it coasts through 1st crack I would drop the voltage down to normal and let the roaster do its own thing to finish.

[Zzyzx]

Sounds great, Looking forward! :D

[Niko]

I roasted a KILLER pound of Aussie Mountain Top XF last week on the Behmor. Let me just say that it was an impressive cup with a remarkable clarity I never got out of the iRoast2. It had this incredible range that I never knew existed.

[chas]

Tell me more about the settings your are using and the amounts you are roasting. So far the more I use my Behmor, the more I love my Hottop.

It's mostly the incredible overshoot after you hit the Cooling button that bugs me.

[Niko]

Yeah, I know what you mean...it's like being in the seat of an amazing race care only to have the steering wheel removed. Sort of like riding on rails on autopilot.
Makes me LOVE the Hottop more and more as well.

I decided to show the Behmor who's driving the other night.
I only roast 1 pound batches and the profile I've been using is #2, clearly it has the best roast curve but the lack of further controls also makes it the worst one at the same time. The danger lies in baking the beans with it and it does a good job if you let it go. It starts off nicely but it doesn't get to 1st crack fast enough on certain beans, kind of gives the espresso a salty flavor (believe it or not). What I found out is that I can get to that 1st crack faster before the roaster cuts off the heat by cranking up the Variac to about 124V. It made a big difference, as soon as 1st crack got a good roll to it - a simple counterclockwise crank on the variac to turn it down to 115V did the trick. It not only dropped the heat (the Behmor curve did this as well) but I cranked it back up to 120V when the elements kicked in again to finish off the roast.

As for the cooling, I got used to that from using the Gene Cafe. These two roasters are really bad at cooling and the overshoot is something to get used to.
Nothing cools like the Hottop...it's like a car hitting 120-0mph into a brick wall, the roast stops dead in its tracks

[Weska]

Agreed about the Gene and its cooling overshoot.

I may yet pull the beans for outside cooling and let the Gene continue the cooling cycle for the sake of its own parts. But that has you juggling some hot parts and jerking around the heating element when it is at its hottest.

The overshoot is not extremely easy to judge, but I think I'm on the path. I'm making better coffee more reliably than before with the Whirley on the flame.

[Niko]

I must say that the Gene is one of the most fun roasters to use.
With full control right at your fingertips, it really doesn't get any easier or make any more sense.
Gotta' run, the Gene is about to hit 1st crack any minute now........

[coffeeowl]

Nothing cools like the Hottop...it's like a car hitting 120-0mph into a brick wall, the roast stops dead in its tracks

Since the Hottop P is a few months savings time for me, how do you find old Hottop vs Hottop P vs Behmor vs Gene? The older Hottops are still available in Europe from Hasbean.

[Niko]

I can't answer for the older Hottops but Chas pretty much proves that the newer models are better for sure, otherwise he wouldn't have upgraded the control panel twice
As for the Behmor and Gene, both are very nice roasters but my personal favorite is the Hottop 8828P. It gives me a roasting experience like no other, it gets all the senses involved (sight, sound and smell) are all there including beans cool to the touch after just a few rapid moments of cooling.

[Niko]

Nice!

[keithcutter]

I've owned the Behmor for about 6 weeks now and thought I'd check in w/ my observations.

At first, the fact I couldn't see the beans very well during the roast really bothered me. I tried roasting w/o the chaff screen in place; and considered cutting a hole in the chaff screen. What I found was that the roasts took longer w/ the chaff screen removed -- perhaps because the screen does a better job of reflecting infrared radiation from the heating element. Anyway, I always use the screen and it's not just because it's neater -- it's because it makes the roast faster.

With the screen in place 'I' can't see the beans well enough to judge the roast by bean color so I don't use any visual clues to end the roast cycle. I look and listen. It is really hard to see the smoke, but you can if you look hard and have a good visual background against which to view.

I feel 8oz is the optimal batch size. My biggest concern w/ the Behmor is getting it to roast faster. I want a target roast time closer to 15 minutes; with more than 8oz of beans the roast takes more than 20 minutes. I think a variac would help me with the speed of roast. Anyone know a good/cheap source?

The other benefit of an 8 oz. roast is that I can 'lie' to the machine and tell it I have 16 oz of beans and then I'm able to get a darker roast if that's what I'm after.

The 'continue to roast while cooling' thing bothered me until I started opening the door all the way for 60 sec at the start of the cooling cycle. Yes, this makes LOTS of smoke, but it does help with cooling.

I've tried all the different profiles and so far I like P2 the best. I compress the curve a bit by choosing a low initial starting time; then add time at the very end (when the power level is at 100%).

I'm still impressed with the build quality of this device. Every once in a while I do dream of a USB interface so I could have better control...

[Niko]

Keith,
I got my Variac on eBay, a 20A model just like Chris' (bbqnut) for about $120 delivered. Just do a search and they'll immediately pop up.
It definitely helps with the Behmor!

[jmcphail]

Naive question -

I'm guessing that you can use the variac to drop temp and stretch C1 - C2?

[JohnB]

Niko - What do you have for voltage coming into your house at the breaker box? I never see more then 117v on one leg & 115v on the other. I'm surprised you can dial in 124v.

[Niko]

I can actually crank it up to 130 easily with the Variac.
I'm not sure why but I get 124V straight through with no Variac needed
Good question, I'll have to ask my electrician friend.

[JohnB]

Voltage will vary from area to area. I'm out in the sticks so we take what we can get. Getting cable 10 years ago was a big deal. Still no DSL!

[Niko]

Still no DSL!

Trust me, you're not missing out

[chas]

I used the Kill-A-Watt device on one Behmor roast and one Hottop P roast. Here's what I found out:

BEHMOR
Idle - .04A (Unit plugged in but Off)
Heater Element and Drum Motor Running - 8.25A
Above plus Smoke Suppression System on - 13.2A
Smoke Suppression & Drum Motor Only - 5.25A
Cooling Fan and Drum Motor Only - 0.44A

Used Variac to maintain 115V

Running 1lb mode, P2, C profile took 0.44Kw-Hr
12oz Green Kona yielded final roast weight 10oz
21:30 roast time, hit cool button at 2nd crack start with 30 seconds left
With 12 minute cool cycle yields 33 minutes total run time.
7.5cents/Kw-Hr * 0.44Kw-Hr = 3.3cents for total roast
Behmor cost per roasted ounce - 1/3 cent

HOTTOP P
Idle - .01A (Unit plugged in but Off)
Heater Element and Drum Motor Running - 6.05A
Drum Motor Only - 5.25A
Cooling Tray & Fan,Drum Motor & Fan - 0.44A

Used Variac to maintain 120V (would have preferred 120V with the Behmor but it draws so much more current I can't keep the voltage that high w/o blowing the Variac fuse.)

Running Randy Glass Profile used 0.23Kw-Hr
9oz Green Kona yielded final roast weight 7.4oz
18:00 initial roast time
1st crack 390F with 5:15 remaining.
2nd crack 412F with 2:45 remaining
Manual eject at 414F with 2:30 remaining
With 5 minute cool cycle yields 20:30 minutes total run time.
7.5cents/Kw-Hr * 0.23Kw-Hr = 1.7cents for total roast cost of
.23cents per ounce

-----------------------

Behmor per pound = 5.3cents
Hottop per pound = 3.7cents
However, if you factor in a new $10 HT filter every 20 pounds (40 roasts), then you have to add about 25 cents per pound to the HT cost and the Behmor wins by a mile.

[bbqnut]

What I find odd is the amps pulled. I always found the Behmor to be a bit slow, and never really seemed capable of a fast roast, even if I wanted it.

The Hottop OTOH, seems more powerful, yet draws quite a bit less amperage across the board.

[chas]

Two obvious possibilities are:

1) The Behmor element is not as efficient
2) The cylindrical vs rectangular shape of the HT means less volume to heat in the HT.