15 amp operation disadvantage

Post by **Bud** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:24 am

A probable soon to be V2 owner here.

As I understand it in 15 amp operation, the brew and steam boilers will switch back and forth, rather than both being able to heat at the same time.
What will this actually mean in operation of the machine? Will I still be able to pour a shot and steam milk at the same time? Or will this only be a problem if doing several continuous shots in a row? I would like to be able to steam as I pour, but dedicated 20 amp electrical may be a problem for a while.

Thanks Much!

Bud

Post by **Niko** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 11:14 am

Bud,
The machine is not the same in 15A operation.
Others will tell you it's fine, which it is, but in my opinion the machine is just not the same. Yeah, you can steam at the same time as you pull your shots in 15A mode. The steam will be weaker since the boiler won't activate while the group is busy heating the shot pouring out.
I can compare the 2 since my VII is working in 20A and my other S1 is operating in econmony mode.
It has bothered me so much that I'm having an electrician coming out in 2 weeks to install another breaker.

Post by **aptosca** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:47 pm

I operated in economy mode for the first week or two. Most of the time, it didn't bother me (but I was pretty much just doing drinks for myself.) As I got more familiar with the machine, I did notice the lower pressure on the steam as I tried to do more things at once. Not a whole lot (especially compared to my previous machines) but enough to make me wonder ...

So I turned off economy mode. It is nicer. And I have yet to pop the breaker, but there's nothing else on this circuit that I don't have control over (only on-off appliances, no cyclers like refrigerators).

Post by **Jesse** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 3:43 pm

What will this actually mean in operation of the machine? Will I still be able to pour a shot and steam milk at the same time? Or will this only be a problem if doing several continuous shots in a row? I would like to be able to steam as I pour, but dedicated 20 amp electrical may be a problem for a while.

Bud,

I am running my machine in 15 amp mode and I am happy with it. I pour and steam milk concurrently and I've been able to do so with only the time need to grind/tamp between pours/steam.

Now if you're the sort who wants to grind a pound of beans and pull 30 double shots in a row while steaming three liters of milk in a saucepan for your 60 closest friends, well, you might be a bit disappointed in 15 amp mode. So of course, if you are able, put it on a 20 amp circuit, and then you can entertain the neighborhood.

Until then, if it is just you and yours, you won't be disappointed running it in 15 amp mode because it doesn't retard, in any way, the functionality. It is just a touch slower.

Best,
-Jesse

Post by **Niko** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:04 am

I got so sick of 15A that it didn't take me long to install not just one, but two 20A breakers that are independent of each other and the entire house. It took quite a while and miles of wire (so it seemed) but it's worth all the effort.

Post by **Bud** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 2:27 am

I got so sick of 15A

Niko, So sick of 15 amp??, I

chas · Post by **chas** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 7:05 am

Niko, looks like you have the same surge suppressor that I do and it works great. It just doesn't look like much and sticks out a mile.

I found this alternative one at the link below. This one has a little style and the outlet is on the side which keeps it a little more low profile.

http://tinyurl.com/3atz8g

Post by **Niko** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:39 am

Chas,
Thanks for the link!
Did you try this one? I think I might order one since I had something weird happen to my display earlier this week.

Update:
I just ordered one!
I'll report back with it in action. Not that there will be any action but at least I can post a pic showing the nice clearance from the wall.

Post by **Niko** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:35 pm

Well this sucks.
I just got the new surge protector and it doesn't fit because of the position of my outlet, it's too close to the bottom where it meets with the lip of my counter (backsplash).
I'll figure something out because I really like the way this surge protector is designed, you can literally push the Spaz all the way against the wall because of its slim profile.
I'm either going to move the outlet up or just grind some of the back counter, either way I don't care about my kitchen! It goes like this: Spaz 1st, House 2nd.

chas · Post by **chas** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:38 pm

So it's not interference with the VII plug, it's the actual unit itself? Did you install one of those 20A outlets with a single outlet in the middle. If so you could always install one of the outlets that has two 20A outlets and plug it into the top outlet. Would that give enough additional clearance?

You sure got it fast. Did you go for Next Day shipping?

Post by **Niko** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 7:24 pm

I did get next day shipping and I'm getting right away service, my old man is coming over my house after work to grind some countertop out of the way. I do have a double outlet already so it wouldn't save me space.
The picture you saw above, the one with the red kitchen wall is my other house with the other Vivaldi, which I'm sure has enough clearance for either type of surge protector.
See what happens when you plan things right? The one house is all wrong and the other is perfect...

UPDATE:
Success!!
We raised the outlet 3/8" higher, just enough clearance for this pesky little surge protector.
If anyone is interested in a surge protector, this is a really nice one, just make sure you have the clearance on the bottom.

Post by **Bigtwin** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 12:20 am

What's the model number of the Panamax surger protector? Is it the Panamax M2A20 ? 1 20 amp outlet and 1 15 amp outlet?

Post by **Niko** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 12:59 am

Bigtwin wrote:What's the model number of the Panamax surger protector? Is it the Panamax M2A20 ? 1 20 amp outlet and 1 15 amp outlet?

It's the "Panamax M2A20 20A". They're both 20A outlets.

Post by **Bigtwin** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 1:10 am

Niko, I just want to make sure I get the right one. When I searched Amazon I found the following features...it says 1 20 amp and 1 15 amp outlet.... Is the Panamax you are using have a 20 amp type outlet on both sides of the Panamax?

http://www.amazon.com/Panamax-M2A20-20A ... =de_a_smtd

Product Features
All of PMXM2 features, plus
One 20-amp AC outlet & one 15-amp AC outlet
For use with high-current applications such as high-speed copiers & printers, audio amplifiers, etc

Post by **Niko** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 1:24 am

Looks like the right one to me on your link.
I don't know why they say one 20A and one 15A on the description, they both have the same outlet on both ends on the one I'm using.
If it helps, I'll let you know for sure in a couple of days...I ordered another one just the other day and it arrives on Thursday.

Post by **Niko** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 3:49 pm

OK!
Got it a day early...

Note the part on the box that says "One 20A outlet on each side".

chas · Post by **chas** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 3:57 pm

This company has a problem with their own advertising. I looked on the sites of a couple of places that sell it and also on Panamax's own site. They all say that it has one 15A and one 20A outlet. However, none of them showed a photo of both sides of the device so I couldn't tell for sure.

If you really have a 20A device, you'd be pretty dumb to plug something into both sides. However, having the option to plug into either side is nice. In my case the left side plug would be blocked by the adjacent outlet I use for the Mazzer Mini-E. (Adjacent outlets but both have their own breakers!)

Post by **Niko** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 4:04 pm

chas wrote:This company has a problem with their own advertising.

You're not kidding!
I posted the cover of the box for everyone to see for themselves

Post by **Bigtwin** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 5:07 pm

thanks Niko for the clarification! Can you tell me where you found the best deal? PM me if you wish.

I found a good deal on buy.com but they are not in stock at this time. (free shipping)

Post by **Niko** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 5:37 pm

The one I just got came from Amazon, it was the same as last time (early last year) around $39 - $45 depending when they're available and for how much $$. It really varies, I've seen the same one go for around $90 on Amazon just a couple of months ago

Just ordered it last week because I had an Amazon gift certificate to burn and thankfully the unit was only $45 last week.
You gotta' just jump on one when you see it so I'd check out Amazon. I wouldn't get a used one, you never know what was plugged into it

charlesaf3 · Post by **charlesaf3** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 4:05 pm

I'm using mine at 15 amp - I could see the advantages at 20, but it really makes no difference for me as I'm only making drinks for myself - a party might be different.

Post by **Niko** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:39 pm

Just turn off the fridge, unplug the microwave and flip the toggle on the Vivaldi into 20A for a party

charlesaf3 · Post by **charlesaf3** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 11:30 pm

not a bad idea!

But honestly, I'm the one holding the machine back, not vice versa