Bringing Vivaldi to Canada

[comrade]

Good Evening,

Curious to know if any Canadians here have bought their Vivaldi state side. The Canadian prices seem crazy compared to the US even though idrinkcoffee has the Vivaldi II on sale at $2500CND down from $2900!!!!! Why are they so much up here?? Many folks here in Winnipeg buy stuff in the US and have it shipped to an address just across the line and go and bring it across themselves. Saves on brokerage fees. I imagine that all one would need to pay is GST and PST when coming back to Canada but unsure about duties?? Then I suppose there may be warranty issues as well....

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[chas]

There are certainly some Canadians on the forum that have dealt with that issue and can answer your questions. However, they haven't checked in recently. I am wondering if they are frozen in their igloos.

[Endo]

You'll need to try and calculate it yourself, but I believe they'll tag on roughly:

1. GST (6%)
2. PST (7%)
3. Duty (6.5%)
4. UPS Handling/Brokerage Fee($75?)
5. Shipping ($100?)

I think it works out to about +$600 (give or take) on the Vivaldi, but since the dollar is now at par, I think it's worth considering.

You need to check the warranty as well.

I'd make the argument to Joe at Caffe Tech and see what he says. He might be willing to go down a bit and meet the current delivered US price. If he says no, you know what to do.

[Louis]

You'll need to try and calculate it yourself, but I believe they'll tag on roughly:

1. GST (6%)
2. PST (7%)
3. Duty (6.5%)
4. UPS Handling/Brokerage Fee($75?)
5. Shipping ($100?)

Endo, can you explain what you mean by "duty" of 6.5%?

With the NAFTA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Amer ... _Agreement) in place, there is no duty to pay per say. No?

Am I missing something here?

[GDK]

Duties do not apply to goods made in US or Mexico only. Vivaldi is made in Italy.

I would call Slawek at idrinkcoffee and ask him to match the best US price you find on-line. He may not match it completely but can still make it a better deal than if you import from the US when you factor it all in. You may get a good price on the pre-infusion chamber too, as part of the package. If you have it shipped to address outside of Ontario (say to Quebec), you only pay the GST - big saving on its own (8%), no shipping, no duty.

I purchased my Mini V II from them and do not regret it at all. I had a cracked plastic border around the cup tray likely due to shipping - no problem. Slawek sent me a new part without a hassle.

[Louis]

Duties do not apply to goods made in US or Mexico only. Vivaldi is made in Italy.

I would call Slawek at idrinkcoffee and ask him to match the best US price you find on-line. He may not match it completely but can still make it a better deal than if you import from the US when you factor it all in. You may get a good price on the pre-infusion chamber too, as part of the package. If you have it shipped to address outside of Ontario (say to Quebec), you only pay the GST - big saving on its own (8%), no shipping, no duty.

I purchased my Mini V II from them and do not regret it at all. I had a cracked plastic border around the cup tray likely due to shipping - no problem. Slawek sent me a new part without a hassle.

Interesting. So Chris' Coffee pay duties to the US government (as the equipment was built outside North America), and then, if they were to sell it back to a Canadian, the later would then pay duties to the Canadian government. Duties would then be paid two times for bringing this item inside North America. Great...

Thank you. I will take this into account. I also didn't factor in the provincial tax (paid when importing from the US, not paid when buying in another province). Both together, then get to around $400.

Add to this shipping cost (~$100 inside Canada; $___ from the US), taking care of duty clearance (to avoid abusive charges from UPS/FedEx), not having a legal warranty when buying from a foreign country (even if I have absolutely no fear on this, with Chris' Coffee reputation), etc. Buying in Canada seems more attractive now...

Then it will also depend on the kind of rebate a vendor is willing to give.

In the mean time, I'll look for more feedback on the service of IDrinkCoffee and CaffeTech before deciding from whom I'll buy.

Also, my green side doesn't of buying 3000km West of me an equipment built 6000km East of me... doesn't sound right. Ontario would make more sense.

Are there other Canadian vendors in my area (Montréal) I should be aware of?

[comrade]

I have not pulled the trigger yet and have not been in contact with any Canadian retailers for possible better pricing (putting a few more $ together). I have learned however that the duties that apply to "coffee makers" is 9%.....this is applied after GST is calculated and applied then add your PST on top of that if applicable.....ouch!

[Endo]

Cafe Union sells them in Montreal. They have a red Mini V1 demo unit you can pull shots on to see if you like it.

EspressoPlanet in Mississauga also sells them online.

[Louis]

After some research on the subject on HB, I found this link, dating from 2005, at CoffeeGeek:
http://coffeegeek.com/forums/worldregio ... ast/147412

In 2005, someone found a loophole through which he imported an espresso machine duty free. Under tariff 8419.81.10:

Machinery for making hot drinks, not including coffee making and dispensing machines but including espresso or cappuccino machines and combination roasting, milling and brewing machines. FREE

The current link at CBSA for tariff tables is: http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/trade-commer ... u-eng.html

The same tariff number has not changed but espresso machines are no longer specifically mentioned. I guess espresso machines would now be recognized at the border as coffee makers and not as hot drinks machinery...

A tariff of 9% would then apply.

According to the CoffeeGeek thread of 2005-2007, people (even then) had mixed success at the border.

I thought this might be of interest.

[Louis]

Just some rought calculations with current prices:

Importing from the US:

• Listed price Chris' Coffee: $2,195
• +GST (5%): $2,304.75
• +Duty (9%): $2,512.18
• +Québec TVQ (8.5%): $2,725.71
• +Shipping: at least 150$?

Total: USD$2,875, or CAD$2,945 (1,0246 CAD for 1 USD)
(according to my latest USD transaction on my credit card)

Buying in Canada in another province:

• Listed price almost everywhere: $2,499
• +GST (5%): $2,623.95
• +No Duty
• +No Québec TVQ
• +Free shipping

Total CAD$2,625

Hum... this is a $320 difference.

Then the question is: would I get a much better discount by buying from the US importer directly than the one I would get from a Canadian retailer...

[Louis]

Sorry for the posting delirium...

Quick question: will the Canadian Vivaldis configuration/options/accessories match what Chris' Coffee has?

Another way to put it: does the Canadian Vivaldis benefit from the small customizations Chris Nachtried requested and got from La Spaziale over the years or should I expect to miss (theoritical examples): a boiler drain, a more user friendly steam tip, etc?

[Endo]

Cafe Union in Montreal are S1 machines (not Chris modded). They buy them direct from Italy.

All online vendors (EspressoPlanet, Idrinkcoffee, Caffe Tech) sell Chris Machines. Labelled as S1V2.

The differences are very minor.

Also, I think you need to add a $75 "customs/brokerage fee" to your calculations.

[Louis]

Also, I think you need to add a $75 "customs/brokerage fee" to your calculations.

Not really. Duty clearance simply imply looking at CBSA tables and confirming if duties should be percieved. USPS and Canada Post do this for you for a minor cost ($15 or so if I remember correctly). If the parcel service ask for something higher, you can ask them to keep the package while you do the clearance yourself at no cost by going to a CBSA office with the appropriate paper from the carrier, pay duties if applicable and give the clearance paper you receive back to the parcel service to get your package at no cost.

I paid abusive charges one time to UPS and intend not to ever do so again...

[Endo]

Ahhh. Good to know there is a way around that ridiculous UPS charge. I usually just ask them to ship USPS if they can. But not everyone does.

[Louis]

Still trying to choose where I will buy from...

We all agree that a 9% duty tariff will be charged if I buy an italian espresso machine in the US.

Should I expect the same of accessories? (Vivaldi Timer, steam tip, tamper, knockbox, naked portafilter, ...)

Do CBSA apply tariffs independently for each small item in an order or do they tend to be treated all the same?

[comrade]

I wondered that myself seeing as I would be purchasing "the works" including grinder. Technically they are not a part of the machine......

[Endo]

It's inconsistant. Often I've had $50 items slip through. Other times, I get dinged whe the item reaches $100.

[comrade]

Pulled the trigger today!!!! Ended up buying from Slawek at iDrinkcoffee. He price matched Chris Coffee's prices. I must admit I feel very excited but sick at the same time. Not very often I drop 3K, never mind on an espresso machine and all the attachments. Anyway I am sure you will be hearing from me a lot in the next while as I figure the gear out. I bought the Vivaldi II, Vario grinder, seven day timer and Espro tamper.

Thanks for all the input on this thread.

Rob

[chas]

Not to worry. The number of folks that have exhibited buyer's remorse has been very low. Even though some folks receive machines that have out-of-box issues, almost all of them can be taken carry of easily. Very few have needed to send their machines back to resolve issues.

[Endo]

Pulled the trigger today!!!! ........ I must admit I feel very excited but sick at the same time. Not very often I drop 3K, never mind on an espresso machine and all the attachments.

As you should. It's a lot of money for a coffee machine (as most people will remind you).

But you can also feel good knowing you got the best $2500 machine out there! My machine has brought me great pleasure over the last 2.5 years and I don't regret my purchase in the slightest. (Although like you, I couldn't help but feel like "what the hell have I done" for the first week or so).