Coffee suggestions?

Discussion of various types and blends of commercially available pre-roasted beans, their best sources, prices, their respective merits, and the Vivaldi settings required to optimism flavor.
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JamesDH

Coffee suggestions?

Post by JamesDH »

Hi,

My S1 will arrive on the 23rd and I'm looking to get some good coffee to christen it.
Like many this is my first real espresso machine and a step up from the $70 Krups, store bought beans and Cuisinart grinder.

I found what looks like an excellent grinder, Mazzer Major, on the bay.
Ordere the S1 from Chris's along with everything to plumb in the filter/softener as well as the bottomless PF.

What I'm not sure of is a good bean to use. I see Black Cat mentioned a lot in the reviews and was going to try some of that.

What are some other beans that are good?
(I know good being relative and I'm not enlightened enough to know what good beans are)
Being an espresso noob I'm not really sure what taste I'm looking for but think I would like to start with something not to harsh and maybe on the lighter side.

Recommendations?

thanks

James
shakin_jake

Re: Coffee suggestions?

Post by shakin_jake »

Hi James, Greetings from another n00b here on this board. I'm not a Spaz owner but have been looking at this machine. I'm pulling my shots with a tuned and modded Gaggia Classic since about last April

You wanting coffees suggestions, beans to try. I'm assuming you mean roasted beans and not green beans. Tried Black Cat first time myself about a week ago, but only a cup of it from a cafe in Gainesville Fla.-down the road from me. Was very nice (volta.com)

At home, the only roasted beans I've had delivered have been from Sweet Marias. Last spring into summer they were offering a 3 month coffee subscription I got in on. Basically they were delivering 2 lbs of espresso blend every 2 weeks. The blends varied each time and I sampled every blend they had to offer. Quite good and fresh roasted coffe IMO

About the same time this coffee was coming I bought a Behmor drum roaster and in between deliveries from SM's I was trying my hand roasting green beans. IIRC the coffee subscription ran out in July and I have been roasting all of my own coffee ever since. I keep a roast log and am at batch #42

This is the way to go IMO, roasting your own beans. You'll always have something fresh to drink and the learning curve is simple. Just a thought

Enjoy your new espresso machine!


Jake
Reddick Fla.
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chas
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Re: Coffee suggestions?

Post by chas »

I'm a 100% home roaster, too, so I can't give you any roasted bean type or source suggestions. However, this question has come up a number of times on this forum and resulted in several threads chock full of suggestions. Do poke around and/or use the search function to check them out.
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.25 (US 120V)
Mazzer Kony E, Customized Rocky
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Re: Coffee suggestions?

Post by chas »

shakin_jake wrote:
About the same time this coffee was coming I bought a Behmor drum roaster and in between deliveries from SM's I was trying my hand roasting green beans. IIRC the coffee subscription ran out in July and I have been roasting all of my own coffee ever since. I keep a roast log and am at batch #42

Jake
Reddick Fla.
Jake, let me know what you think of the Behmor. I liked the additional capacity of the Behmor but it just didn't seem up to snuff for my purposes. I found with the beans I use that I couldn't roast more than about 12 oz given the max times the Behmor limits you to. I trying using a Variac to ensure the voltage drop wasn't an issue, but it really didn't help that much. I had the to replace the turbo smoke reduction heater once and Joe sent me two replacements so this must be an issue. Then the motor died and he sent me a completely new unit.

Recently, it started in where it would sometimes stop early on with an Error message. Then a couple of week back, I left the area for a couple of minutes. When I returned smoke was billowing out, Once I reset the fire alarm and waved off the alarm company, the smoke was still pouring out just as bad though no flames. I then took it outside and smoke was still billowing out 30minutes later. I got the drum out and discovered why. The beans were burning like charcoal - even beyond being able to sell them to Starbucks. While I was letting it cool down torrential rains came in and it rained non-stop for three days. So I just chucked it in the trash at that point. Joe Behm has been great about addressing the other issues I'd had. For all I know he might have sent me a new one again, too, but I'd had enough. I am happily back to roasting my 9-10oz batches in the Hottop.

BTW: As best I can tell the problem was that the drum stopped turning but the unit and the heater elements stayed on. THe unit is supposed to be able to sense this condition and turn off or at least go into cool down mode, but that apparently didn't happen.
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.25 (US 120V)
Mazzer Kony E, Customized Rocky
Hottop P/B
JohnB

Re: Coffee suggestions?

Post by JohnB »

JamesDH wrote:Hi,

What are some other beans that are good?
(I know good being relative and I'm not enlightened enough to know what good beans are)
Being an espresso noob I'm not really sure what taste I'm looking for but think I would like to start with something not to harsh and maybe on the lighter side.

Recommendations?

thanks

James
Terroir Coffee has some nice espressos, Toscano from Counter Culture is good as is Black Cat. B/C needs to age 8-10 days before it hits its prime, most others at least 5 days. La Bella Vita from Pt's Coffee is another that you will find some info on in this coffee section.
shakin_jake

Re: Coffee suggestions?

Post by shakin_jake »

Wow Chas, That's quite the story, and a good example of why one shouldn't walk away from their roaster anytime it's plugged in and running. It's hard to stay planted in front of a roaster with a roast that runs 20 + minutes but that is the party line. Having said that, more often than not, and I always operate my Behmor roaster in my garage, I've become so used to the roasting cycles that I will set mine up typically 1/P3/C (21:30 run time) w/12 ounces of greenies, turn it on, go back into the house and set the kitchen timer so I'm back out into the garage to watch the last 4 minutes of the roast. Depending on the phase of the moon, humidity, ambient temps, on and on, I never know if I might have to add time to the end to get it where I like my beans to end up (Vienna), stop the cycle short and initiate cooling early or she'll go to Vienna on her own, but that's just part of the adventure

With the 42 roasts i've done to date, the only problem I've had with my Behmor is on roast #39, the afterburner stopped working as evidenced by copious amounts of smoke at the end of the cycle (the back side of 1st crack) with the smoke exiting harmlessly out the rear top of the machine as it's designed to do. I emailed Behmor tech and recieved two new afterburners lickety split so I'm back to smoke free roasting. FWIW, the AF (afterburner) R&R was easy

I have no complaints with my Behmor roaster. It's always worked as advertised except for the AF failure and as far as that goes, the roast finished w/o any troubles. I roasted another batch of beans with the dysfunctional AF and no problems w/that batch other than lots of smoke at the end but roast #40, I had a new AF installed

I'd have to go back and look at my roast notes but I don't recall doing any 1/4 lb roasts. I'll do a half pound occasionally but more often than not I set the cycle for one lb of beans and weigh out 12 ounces to insure my roast will end up Vienna. When the roast is done, I clean up the chaff with the included brush, dump the pan, pull the drum and bag the beans. My cleaning routine consists of a damp wipe down on the glass and door gasket and I'll wipe the interior of the machine too. I've used a degreaser in the past on the area where the thermocouples are and I've also used paper toweling soaked in a Joe Glo solution to wipe all of the interior but I should mention I wring the paper towel so the toweling isn't much more than damp. That seems to make short order of any bean residue but I also follow the manufacturer's guidlines in regards to running the 1/2 lb default cycle (every 5th roast) with the drum empty to further burn off bean oil and residue

On average I pull 6 to 7 double shots of espresso daily. I detergent backflush my Gaggia nightly so the next morning I'm pulling two garabage shots first. I find that I'm going through approx 5 ounces of roasted coffee a day so if I roast 12 ounces of green beans, I end up with 10 ounces of roasted beans (2 ounces lost through moisture evaporation during the roast cycle). Therefore, I'm roasting every other day. Needless to say, I'm pretty dependant on my roaster and the Behmor has always been there for me. If a total Behmor failure ever occurs, I have a back up roaster to fall back on, a West Bend Poppery 2 but I hope it never comes to that, due to the small volume of beans the fluid bed roaster can only handle

Did I answer your Behmor question Chas?


Jake
Reddick Fla.
JamesDH

Re: Coffee suggestions?

Post by JamesDH »

I do plan to roast my own but wanted to tackle getting the machine setup and cranking out nice coffee first (train the operator mainly!).

After checking out every thread I could find on blends to get I dropped in on Sweet Marie's and ordered a bag of the roast they have coming up tomorrow as well as a bag of Black Cat, a bag of hairbender and a bag of Toscano from CCC.
Wanted to get in on a coffee of the week subscription at Sweet Marie's I saw mentioned in a thread but can't find it on their website.

I would like to find a local roaster here in Houston. I looked at Cuvee but they have not replied to my email. Probably drop by when I get back to the US.

Looking forward to roasting my own as well.

Thanks
James
shakin_jake

Re: Coffee suggestions?

Post by shakin_jake »

James- AFAIK sweetmarias is not doing the coffee subscription currently but you could email Maria and inquire as to when they will be starting it up again. Last I heard (July) Maria wrote in an email to me that they were thinking of offering a roasted bean subscription in the form of pairings. Pairing up two lbs of roasted beans but one pound different from the other such as one wet processed and one dry processed, or one cheaper bean with one expensive bean, the same bean with two different roast degrees (Full City one lb Vienna the other?)

What I liked about getting their espresso blends delivered every two weeks for 3 months was it gave me a benchmark to shoot for in my own roasting adventures. And they also were able to showcase their blends to me. I have purchased cheaper beans elsewhere and I feel that you get what you pay for. The best you know is the the best you had. It looks like you are going to get a nice cross profile from diffferent roasters from across the country


Jake
Reddick Fla.
JamesDH

Re: Coffee suggestions?

Post by JamesDH »

Jake,

The pairings sounds like something I would really be interested in. I'll email to see what they've got planned.
I saw a subscription at CCC but it's for a single variety that you choose. Not exactly what I was looking for.

I can envision having a regular coffee that I would drink to "get going" and then a variety to enjoy and experiment with.

This talk had me surfing roasters for a few hours already today. Looks like the HotTop is the way to go??
Expensive I know but.. darn it I just spent $3000 on a machine and grinder! What's a few hundred more?
Besides I look at it as more of an investment.. unlike the RC helis that I spend hundreds on just to crash.

The woman and I really enjoy our coffee so I can justify it much easier.
(Shocked me that on our second date she asked me to make her some coffee which she drank sans sugar!!! and then asked for more! It was love at first sip)

James
shakin_jake

Re: Coffee suggestions?

Post by shakin_jake »

JamesDH wrote:Jake,

The pairings sounds like something I would really be interested in. I'll email to see what they've got planned.
I saw a subscription at CCC but it's for a single variety that you choose. Not exactly what I was looking for.


~~~my understanding of how they would offer it, would be to change it up every delivery. As much as I enjoy roasting, I would be tempted to sign up for it. All the coffee i recieved during the 3 month espresso blend subscription I bought last summer was truly fine coffee. IIRC I paid in advance for the subscription, something like $155 which worked out to about $12.90/lb delivered



I can envision having a regular coffee that I would drink to "get going" and then a variety to enjoy and experiment with.

This talk had me surfing roasters for a few hours already today. Looks like the HotTop is the way to go??



~~~I have not used the Hot Top James, only the Behmor



Expensive I know but.. darn it I just spent $3000 on a machine and grinder! What's a few hundred more?



~~~The Hot Top is more than a few hundred. The manual model starts at better than $700 w/the elctronic version better than $900. I paid $300 for my Behmor roaster and have to say price swayed me




Besides I look at it as more of an investment.. unlike the RC helis that I spend hundreds on just to crash.

The woman and I really enjoy our coffee so I can justify it much easier.



~~~Indeed!, which is why I am considering upgrading from my pour over consumer espresso machine. It pulls great shots but I want more steam power, plumbed in water supply. Other features on the Vivaldi 2 are attractive as well



(Shocked me that on our second date she asked me to make her some coffee which she drank sans sugar!!! and then asked for more! It was love at first sip)

James


~~~Yes, she sounds like a keeper=:-)

Something you might want to consider, depending on your ability and desire to tinker...you might want to put together a home roaster like the stir crazy turbo oven (SC-TO) Many do and are happy with the performance and certainly the low inital cost. If you haven't seen the web pages devoted to this roaster, then look it up in a search engine. I was going to go that route then found I had $300 burning a hole in my pocket so I bought a Behmor instead but I beleive you can put an SC-TO together for about $60-$100. You will also have to come up with a way to cool the beans. When I used an air popper to roast my coffee beans I used the tried and true box fan/sieve (colander) combo




Jake
Reddick Fla.
JamesDH

Re: Coffee suggestions?

Post by JamesDH »

A quick follow up.

The Hairbender smelled so good we opened it first. Wow what a smell!
Bad news is that I should have ordered more! Being new to the art of espresso making and all.. I went thru the whole bag with only two shots that were even drinkable!!
On to the Toscano from CCC. Smelled almost as good as the Hairbender but a little more roasted for lack of a better term. More sink shots!!
Something is going on here. I see a trend that I don't like.. too many shots in the sink!

Ok slow down.. back up and rethink this.

Problem. Naked PF shows that coffee is spraying all over the place.. I mean even down the handle of the PF and onto the floor!!!
The shot is done in like 12 seconds and is totally undrinkable. (except when combined with copious amounts of wonderful steamed milk.. that thing can sure steam some milk!!)
Likely cause?? Something wrong with the grind/tamp? Can't be the machine.. it's working like a charm. Can't be the grinder (Mazzer Major with new burrs and a VERY thorough cleaning)(That grinder is something. The coffee coming out of it feels like silk)
Time to dig around on the internet...
Let's see.. squirting.. better known as channeling, caused by bad distribution. Huh??
Shot pouring too fast.. too coarse of grind. Easily fixed.
Start cranking the grinder down.. more and more and viola.. 25ish seconds for two oz using 14 grams coffee. Nice.
Still spraying all over the place. More research.. Found Banish uneven extractions with WDT
Found a suitable instrument to use to swirl the coffee around in the PF.
Wow!!! One little squirter that lasted a second but the rest was pure pleasure to watch.
The texture was like honey. The taste was not bitter but still had some bite. I didn't want to spit it out immediately. In fact I swirled it around in the mouth and it never got bitter.. just strong and full of flavors.
If it hadn't been 10pm I would have drank the whole shot sans sugar just because I could. I can imagine that one little touch of sugar would put the taste over the top.

The WDT did the trick. No more squirting and much better taste.
That's all of the Toscano from CCC.. on to the Sweet Maria's.
I'll be ordering more Hairbender just to try now that I'm getting more experienced and hopefully not wasting so much!

Fun fun!
James
Niko

Re: Coffee suggestions?

Post by Niko »

Hairbender is Da'Bomb!! ;-)
Nice to hear you're working things out.
JohnB

Re: Coffee suggestions?

Post by JohnB »

James - Keep in mind that most commercially roasted Espresso blends need to age before you start pulling shots to get the full flavor or decent shots. I'd consider 5 days past roast a minimum for most of the popular blends & Intelli suggests 8-10 for their Black Cat Classic.
JamesDH

Re: Coffee suggestions?

Post by JamesDH »

Made another shot this morning with my new found technique and it is possibly the best coffee I've ever tasted.
I've found that I can tell how it's going to taste by the smell (I've always wanted my coffee to taste like it smells and this comes very close) and this smelled good, no hint of bitter or sour. Just heady coffee.
Half a demitasse spoon of sugar and I'm sipping it slow to enjoy it.

JohnB - You may have hit the nail on the head. I received the coffee in the mail on Friday and almost immediately started using it. No "roasted on" date so not sure when it was actually roasted.
I'll remember that next time.

The coffee I received from Sweet Maria's was roasted on the 20th of October. Is that too old?

Made me laugh - Going thru the coffee beans in a local super chain yesterday I saw on one packet where it said "Best if used by 03/2010"

James
JohnB

Re: Coffee suggestions?

Post by JohnB »

No date on the CCC bag or the Hairbender? 10/20 would only put the S/M's at 12 days which might still be in its prime. I'd definitely use it & see what you get. If it tastes good & has good crema throw what you can't use right away in the deep freeze to slow the aging. How did you make out with the Black Cat or is it still aging?
JohnB

Re: Coffee suggestions?

Post by JohnB »

JamesDH wrote: Made me laugh - Going thru the coffee beans in a local super chain yesterday I saw on one packet where it said "Best if used by 03/2010"
James

Sometimes when we are out shopping I'll check out the Peet's coffees to see how old they are as they have a "pull by" code on the side of the bag. I've found some of their ground coffee that was a year old still on the shelf even though the store is supposed to pull it after 90 days. It can't do much for their reputation if customers are drinking year old coffee.
JamesDH

Re: Coffee suggestions?

Post by JamesDH »

Got 3 bags of Hairbender in the mail on Monday (ordered on Saturday!!!).
No date on the bag. My name but no date. However the invoice said roasted less than 24 hours before shipment so I would assume that it was roasted on Friday the 31st.
If that's the case it may just now be coming into it's prime.

When I was ordering the coffees to try I was actually in Africa getting ready to head home.
Guess in my excitement (being gone a month tends to get me home sick) I forgot to order the Black Cat.

I can immediately tell it's different than the S/M coffee. It seems a little more oily? It doesn't fluff up as much out of the grinder and comes out a little less lifeless if that makes any sense.
First shot was way too fast at around 14 seconds so I dialed in two notches finer. Better but.. I'm not getting the taste I was hoping for.
It's not bitter and I don't want to spit it out but it seems.. maybe sour is the word I'm looking for.
It also seems to me that it turns blond too early.
It starts out nice and dark with some lovely crema but around 20 seconds (pushing the brew button and the timer button together) it starts getting very light. Could this be causing the taste to be off a little.

What would you recommend in this case?
JohnB

Re: Coffee suggestions?

Post by JohnB »

What temp are you using? Usually sour means too cool & bitter means too hot but it could also be the early blonding. Tighten up the grind until you get a good pour & if its still sour or you are just not happy with the taste try a different temp. Any temp recommendations on their site? How heavy are you dosing? P/I?

Looks like Niko is recommending 93-94*C here: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=705
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