I'm currently considering an upgrade to my La Pavoni and Anita Quickmill (in our mountain house). It seems that the VII is the next step, but now I've got this GS3 thing going in my head. My pocketbook, on the other hand, makes me question whether the GS3 is really worth >3X more. I'm wondering if anyone has any direct comparisons between the two.
Frankly, one of the most attractive things about the VII is this forum - where I know I could get good continuing information, etc.
All thoughts appreciated. I know that this is a subjective question, but before I part with $2,000 or $7,000, I'd like to hear what folks have to say.
Thanks in advance. Hound Dog
VII vs. GS3
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jmcphail
Hound Dog, do you roast?
With the budget for a GS/3, you could buy a lesser machine, a Versalab grinder and a Diedrich sample roaster. Just a for instance, and my math may be a little optimistic.
This forum is definitely a good source of support.
I like my LaSpaz, but I will say that if I could have spent the money for a GS/3 with the same aplomb that I spent the money for a VII, I would have done so. But more likely a Cyncra.
With the budget for a GS/3, you could buy a lesser machine, a Versalab grinder and a Diedrich sample roaster. Just a for instance, and my math may be a little optimistic.
This forum is definitely a good source of support.
I like my LaSpaz, but I will say that if I could have spent the money for a GS/3 with the same aplomb that I spent the money for a VII, I would have done so. But more likely a Cyncra.
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Hound Dog
I don't roast - it's one part of the obsession that I'm actively staying away from, as I just don't have time for another aspect of this (and several other) hobby(ies). I agree with your math, but it's the lack of time that is making me think of going all the way for the GS/3 - just to be done with it. I'll roast some day, but right now, my wife (and I) would shoot me if I had to start all the way at the bottom of another learning and gadget curve. I already have a mazzer, so that should suffice for the grinder (at least until I amortize the $$ for the machine purchase).
On the cyncra, it just seems that they're somewhat less consumer oriented than the GS/3 (and I think I'd have to plumb it, which I don't want to do, for several reasons). While La Marzocco definitely isn't a consumer oriented company, the GS/3 is definitely engineered that way (as opposed to being a single group version of a commercial machine). That being said, other than the plumbing, there's probably not much real world impact of the observation of a prosumer machine vs. a single group commercial machine. I also can't find anyone like Chris through whom to buy the GS/3.
What would push you to the cyncra rather than the GS/3? I appreciate the insight.
Thanks. Hound Dog
On the cyncra, it just seems that they're somewhat less consumer oriented than the GS/3 (and I think I'd have to plumb it, which I don't want to do, for several reasons). While La Marzocco definitely isn't a consumer oriented company, the GS/3 is definitely engineered that way (as opposed to being a single group version of a commercial machine). That being said, other than the plumbing, there's probably not much real world impact of the observation of a prosumer machine vs. a single group commercial machine. I also can't find anyone like Chris through whom to buy the GS/3.
What would push you to the cyncra rather than the GS/3? I appreciate the insight.
Thanks. Hound Dog
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jmcphail
Unless you opt for the Vivalid Mini ( a fine machine by all accounts), plumbing is also a factor with the VII. I wasn't aware that the GS/3 could be a pourover - I just assumed plumb-in with that one.
FWIW & YMMV:
My take on the Cyncra - and I've never actually seen one in person - is that it's at least the equal if not superior to the GS/3 in the cup, and has a better/higher quality build and fit and finish. I prefer its looks over the GS/3 too. I never discount eye-appeal in anything from cars to appliances, it matters!
The Cyncra will likely always be more rare and unusual than the GS/3, which I believe will help it sell for a higher percentage of its original purchase price. Even if I owned a Cyncra or a GS/3 I'm quite sure that I would be planning out the next upgrade. There's always an upgrade.
I'm no expert, I'm not even really competent, but I can read spec sheets and reviews with the best of 'em :D. I'm prepared to be mistaken in my opinion on the GS/3 & Cyncra.
FWIW & YMMV:
My take on the Cyncra - and I've never actually seen one in person - is that it's at least the equal if not superior to the GS/3 in the cup, and has a better/higher quality build and fit and finish. I prefer its looks over the GS/3 too. I never discount eye-appeal in anything from cars to appliances, it matters!
The Cyncra will likely always be more rare and unusual than the GS/3, which I believe will help it sell for a higher percentage of its original purchase price. Even if I owned a Cyncra or a GS/3 I'm quite sure that I would be planning out the next upgrade. There's always an upgrade.
I'm no expert, I'm not even really competent, but I can read spec sheets and reviews with the best of 'em :D. I'm prepared to be mistaken in my opinion on the GS/3 & Cyncra.
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Hound Dog
Agreed on all fronts. I realized after I made the post that I needed to refer to the Vivaldi Mini - my apologies. I also agree that the cyncra is better looking and that looks matter!! After I do this (whichever way I go), I'll be banned from all upgrades of any variety of any item (coffee, cars, computers, fishing equipment, photo equipment, et al) by the other half for several years (longer if I do the GS/3 or cyncra).
Hound Dog
Hound Dog
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JohnB
Spending $7500 on a GS3 & not upgrading to a top of the line grinder doesn't seem wise. If you need/want the extra edge or can notice the difference in the cup that the GS3 would give you over the V2 Mini then you would definitely want to upgrade the grinder also. Personally I don't see the extra $5500 in the GS3 over the Vivaldi but thats just me.
If I had the $$ to spend I'd also pick the Synesso over the GS3.
If I had the $$ to spend I'd also pick the Synesso over the GS3.
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jmcphail
Considering how much more you could be spending on a truly expensive hobby ( photography and high-end audio come to mind, and beautiful sailboats ) your other half is actually lucky you're into coffee and should cultivate your interest to avoid accelerated losses. If you try this line of reasoning, you know, out loud, uhm, let us know if it works! 
A GS/3 could actually be considered a savings, right?
A GS/3 could actually be considered a savings, right?
Hound Dog wrote:...After I do this (whichever way I go), I'll be banned from all upgrades of any variety of any item (coffee, cars, computers, fishing equipment, photo equipment, et al)
I have never seen or used the GS3, but I have to say that based upon my experience with the Vivaldi and what I have read about the GS3 I don't see any reason to consider the GS3. It is like buying a Ferrari. Do you get anywhere near a "value" for what you are paying? Absolutely not. You get an exotic, esoteric and touchy machine. If you have money to throw around great, buy the toy, but in terms of any reasonable value the Vivaldi or one of the other machines suggested are clearly the way to go.
In addition, the comments regarding grinders are also right on. If you forget about the GS3 and buy a top of the line grinder and the Vivaldi or one of the other choices you will still be spending less than the GS3 alone costs.
One of the features of the Vivaldi that I would never give up is the rotary pump and the plumbed in water source. I can't tell you how nice it is not to have to fill or clean a tank.
Good luck whatever you decide.
Mark
In addition, the comments regarding grinders are also right on. If you forget about the GS3 and buy a top of the line grinder and the Vivaldi or one of the other choices you will still be spending less than the GS3 alone costs.
One of the features of the Vivaldi that I would never give up is the rotary pump and the plumbed in water source. I can't tell you how nice it is not to have to fill or clean a tank.
Good luck whatever you decide.
Mark
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Niko
Comparing the GS3 to a Cyncra is like comparing a Ferrari to an 18-wheeler.
The Synesso is a monolith that wasn't designed to be in a home, it is a huge beast to behold just by reading the numbers. The GS3 is a few years ahead of them all but with a heavy sticker price to prove it
If you have the money burning a hole in your pocket - buy the GS3, but make sure you buy a Vivaldi also so you can at least make some Americanos
because by what I've read, the GS3 doesn't fully operate quite yet.
The Synesso is a monolith that wasn't designed to be in a home, it is a huge beast to behold just by reading the numbers. The GS3 is a few years ahead of them all but with a heavy sticker price to prove it
If you have the money burning a hole in your pocket - buy the GS3, but make sure you buy a Vivaldi also so you can at least make some Americanos
because by what I've read, the GS3 doesn't fully operate quite yet.-
JohnB
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Niko
It doesn't "look" much bigger but it barely fits in a kitchen.
The GS3 is shorter than the Vivaldi and it has PID control that is easily accessible compared to the Cyncra.
Given the choice, I'd take a GS3 over a Cyncra because it would fit in my kitchen better. If I had a GS3, I could drag it over your house for a weekend - try doing that with a Cyncra
But I see your point, the Synesso is a beauty for around the same price but it's a full-on commercial espresso machine where the drip tray HAS to be plumbed also.
The GS3 is shorter than the Vivaldi and it has PID control that is easily accessible compared to the Cyncra.
Given the choice, I'd take a GS3 over a Cyncra because it would fit in my kitchen better. If I had a GS3, I could drag it over your house for a weekend - try doing that with a Cyncra
But I see your point, the Synesso is a beauty for around the same price but it's a full-on commercial espresso machine where the drip tray HAS to be plumbed also.
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jmcphail
The pump motor is external, too. I get the feeling you would build *around* the Synesso.
But hey, it really depends on the kitchen. I've seen home kitchens with walk-in coolers and drink carbonation systems, and built-in beer taps and lines to separate chiller rooms.
I see my Cyncra near the walk-in in my kitchen, over near the Probat, but that's only in the west kitchen... ;)
Until then, I'm happy with my red Vivaldi. It does everything I want and fits my circumstances perfectly.
But hey, it really depends on the kitchen. I've seen home kitchens with walk-in coolers and drink carbonation systems, and built-in beer taps and lines to separate chiller rooms.
I see my Cyncra near the walk-in in my kitchen, over near the Probat, but that's only in the west kitchen... ;)
Until then, I'm happy with my red Vivaldi. It does everything I want and fits my circumstances perfectly.
Niko wrote: But I see your point, the Synesso is a beauty for around the same price but it's a full-on commercial espresso machine where the drip tray HAS to be plumbed also.
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bluesman13
I've read about problems with the GS3 esp over at the CG and Home Barista sites. It has only just available in the US? If you decide to go that route, I'd wait until it gets some experience in the field and some of the bugs worked out. The true test is in the cup, no?
For me personally, the Spaz is more than enough machine for me.
For me personally, the Spaz is more than enough machine for me.
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Niko
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bluesman13
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Niko
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Mizspresso
I look at it this way; there will always be an upgrade. If you spend $7500 on a GS3 now, you will be stuck for several years as you watch better and better machines come on the market. With the Vivaldi, I bet you could negotiate an upgrade in a shorter time. Especially if you could sell the Vivaldi for a couple hundred less than you paid for it. I bet you would have to sacrifice a grand or so to put the GS3 on the used market.
When I see Vivaldis come up for sale on CG they go pretty quickly.
I bought my Vivaldi in December and right after I received it Dalla Corte started selling their machines in the US. I have not been looking for fear of machine envy. They're similar in quality and so much shinier!
When I see Vivaldis come up for sale on CG they go pretty quickly.
I bought my Vivaldi in December and right after I received it Dalla Corte started selling their machines in the US. I have not been looking for fear of machine envy. They're similar in quality and so much shinier!
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JohnB
I don't care for the looks but their temp control is more sophisticated then the V2. At $2200 their Mini is still a pour over & the steam boiler is smaller then the Vivaldi. Looking at their Super Mini it looks like it gives you everything the GS3 does for half the price.Mizspresso wrote:
I bought my Vivaldi in December and right after I received it Dalla Corte started selling their machines in the US. I have not been looking for fear of machine envy. They're similar in quality and so much shinier!
Last edited by JohnB on Thu Feb 14, 2008 6:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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JohnB
Looks like the specs listed for the Mini on the Espressoparts site are really for the commercial machines. The Mini uses an analog temp control not the high tech stuff listed. Here's a review:
http://coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/m ... 028&Page=1
I definitely prefer the V2.
http://coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/m ... 028&Page=1
I definitely prefer the V2.
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Mizspresso
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steve96822
- God Shot
- Posts: 135
- Joined: Tue May 30, 2006 5:08 pm
- Location: US/Asia
S1 viv vs GS3
I sampled shots pulled using the SAME beans on a LM multigroup Machine and an S1. No perceivable difference. Unless the GS3 is a lot better than their multigroups, I can say I would rather get an S1, a Ditter grinder, a roaster or a trip to italy then just a GS3, no grinder.
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Richard
Re: S1 viv vs GS3
What is a Ditter grinder?steve96822 wrote:. . . I would rather get . . . a Ditter grinder . . . .