Fan Silencing Mod

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Niko

Fan Silencing Mod

Post by Niko »

<Shark (or whatever your name was),

What happened to your fan mod and boiler insulation posts?
I know the site went down on Xmas eve, you should re-join the forums and post this stuff again for everybody.
Take care,
I hope you didn't O.D. on caffeine...
StuBaby

Post by StuBaby »

If I remember correctly, his mod was to take double sided tape and use them as spacers between screw holes of fan and floor of Spaz. The purpose being to raise the fan just a little so as to reduce the whistle from fan blades being to close to vent holes in floor of Spaz. He thought this was reason for fan noise, that the fan itself was silent. He suggested leaving the paper on one side of tape so fan wouldn't stick to floor.

His report was that it reduced fan noise by 50%
Niko

Post by Niko »

Yeah, I remember that too.
I was hoping to get his attention so he'll not only return, but repost all his stuff for others to see.
That fan mod would probably work really well with some type of thin rubber washers of some sort, kind of like how the rubber mounts make the motor quieter.
I'd like to see a re-posting of his boiler insulation pics also, I don't need to do that, some people expressed interest in it.
padillatim

Post by padillatim »

I had been meaning to do this since seeing Chas' pictures of the fan on the S1/V2, with the rubber risers under the fan.

I had to take the covers off to get to the fan, which is a hassle and later realized I could have left the covers on and just taken off the front... Anyway, I was able to clean up a bit...

I replaced the two bolts that hold the fan with 1" 6-32 stainless hex-head bolts. This allowed me to screw the bolts into the fan mounting holes with a tight fit - the bolts now come out the bottome of the machine. I used 3 fiber washers on each bolt to raise the fan, about 1/8". There is still a slight whine if you listen for it, but the sound of the boiler boiling is louder. A major improvement.
Niko

Post by Niko »

The new shipment of VII's have been silenced. Not only the fan is nearly silent, but the unit as a whole is much quieter. I'm still scratching my head over what they've done so the covers will fly off soon to check the motor mounts and the rest of the stuff inside compared to my other S1.
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ScottW
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Post by ScottW »

Niko wrote:The new shipment of VII's have been silenced. Not only the fan is nearly silent, but the unit as a whole is much quieter. I'm still scratching my head over what they've done so the covers will fly off soon to check the motor mounts and the rest of the stuff inside compared to my other S1.
My VII was in the "first shipment", and I have to really LISTEN to hear the fan. Almost silent.
Niko

Post by Niko »

I'm not sure about that, I don't have yours in front of me to compare but I think Chas has one of the 1st shipments like you but he didn't mention the fan silence. I think he actually had to perform the upgrdade himself, once again I'm not sure.
I'm just comparing my 2 units and I can't even hear the fan on my VII, I had to put my ear up against it because I thought the fan was broken.
My old S1 is a very late model, it has most of the VII innards - new sensor style in the steam boiler, coverings and casings look all the same in there. I know they must've done something to silence the whoile thing overall. My guess is that my 1st S1 has some loose screws/bolts and other little things that need tightening in there from the shipment last year, the box looked like the unit went through a REAL RIDE coast to coast.
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chas
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Post by chas »

I would say my VII fan was louder than my S1 fan though just a little. It's definitely better after the mod but not as much so as I had hoped.

If you find that Chris or LaSpaz really have done something different in the latest shipment, I'd be interested to hear about it.
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.25 (US 120V)
Mazzer Kony E, Customized Rocky
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Niko

Post by Niko »

Chas, the covers will be flying off soon so I can see what this conspiracy is all about. I'm still baffled as to why this machine is so silent. As I write this, I can't hear the machine, which is 8 ft away, the old unit can be heard 2 rooms away. My wife used to hear the old one fire up when the pump cycled the refill at 1st startup in the mornings, now we sleep right through it.

Makes for a good horror movie.

It's kind of creepy, I'm just afraid that one morning I'll find 2 cappuccino's waiting for me on the drip tray........
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ScottW
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Post by ScottW »

Niko wrote:I'm not sure about that, I don't have yours in front of me to compare but I think Chas has one of the 1st shipments like you but he didn't mention the fan silence.
I'm sure. The fan in my VII is barely audible. If you're more than a few feet away, the only way you can tell it's on is by seeing the blinking LED. What makes you think every machine from the same shipment is identical, anyway?
scot
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Post by scot »

Niko: if you come down in the morning and find 2 cappuccino's sitting there nice and hot with proper latte art waiting for you, take it as a sign that the coffee gods approve of your machine choice. Drink and enjoy!
Niko

Post by Niko »

ScottW wrote:What makes you think every machine from the same shipment is identical, anyway?
Well, it only makes sense that all VII's should act like VII's...right folks? If I pay 2K for a machine, I expect it to run just like the other guys perfect machine.
Just a thought.
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chas
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Post by chas »

As I noted back in February in a previous post on this thread, when I did the double sided sticky tape mod to my fan, it was an improvement but not as much as I'd hoped. Over the ensuing couple of months the noise got louder again. I surmise that the sticky tape, which wasn't all that thick to begin with, was eventually compressed by the screws.

In the original fix e-mail which was unfortunately lost, it was stated that the fans themselves are completely quiet. I validated that myself last night. When you unscrew the fan and hold it out in the air you have to watch for the blades to turn in order to know it's running. It's being screwed down against a set of chassis holes not intended for a fan that disrupts the air flow and causes the noise. The rows of ventilation holes in the bottom of the chassis were no doubt designed for convective cooling which is all the 220V models require. Addition of the cooling fan for the 120V market was an obvious after thought.

The trick is definitely to put some space between the fan and the chassis. Here's was I tried last night and it works. I have to hold my hand under the chassis while the boiler is on now to sense the moving air, since I don't hear a thing.

I replaced the two metric screws that hold the fan on with 6-32 x 3/4" screws. This are the closest "English" fit and they are a little longer than the stock screws. All I did was to put nuts on to the bottom of the two screws snug up against the fan, insert this into the two chassis holes, and secure on the bottom with another set of nuts. The other side of the fan from the two screws is held the same distance off the chassis since it is so light, without having to put any kind of spacers between the bottom side of the fan and the chassis. The thickness of the nuts provides a much wider gap between the fan and chassis than did the double sided sticky tape and it's not going to compress over time. I think the bottom line is that anything that will keep the fan 1/8"-1/4" off the chassis will do the job.
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.25 (US 120V)
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Niko

Post by Niko »

The only thing that holds me back from doing this mod right now is the labor involved with removing any of the side panels, turning the machine over or anything close to this sort of business. Everything is working perfectly so I don't want to disturb that.
Besides removing that small guard that covers the fan, does this mod involve any of the above?
I'd like to start with my old S1 since it sounds like an air raid siren on steroids which is hellbent on driving people crazy within 5,280 feet of operation.
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chas
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Post by chas »

It's not that hard. All you do is:

1) Unplug the S1
2) Remove the drip tray
3) Take off the front panel
4) Remove that small L shaped chrome piece behind the 3-way.

So far you're up to 3 phillips screws.

5) Tip the S1 backwards with one hand while you loosen the two fan nuts using pliers or a wrench with the other hand.
6) Remove the fan nuts by hand.

No need to take of side panels or lay the unit on its back. You can do the whole thing in 15 minutes.
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.25 (US 120V)
Mazzer Kony E, Customized Rocky
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Niko

Post by Niko »

OK.
You've talked me into it since no side panels have to come out. I really hate installing the side panels on these machines.
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chas
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Post by chas »

I forgot one other crucial step. Take the cups off the warmer before you tip the S1 backwards :thumbup:
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.25 (US 120V)
Mazzer Kony E, Customized Rocky
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Niko

Post by Niko »

So......

Chas,
How's the mod working out?
Still quiet as a whisper I assume.

BTW, I forgot to compliment you on your new avatar, it would've been a great batch if it wasn't for that one bad cherry...
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chas
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Post by chas »

I just had to ruin that perfect photo of Kona cherries, didn't I? I hope Cea Smith doesn't sue me!

Nary a peep out of that fan since the mod. The "quiet" fan I bought to replace it has become just a spare part.
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.25 (US 120V)
Mazzer Kony E, Customized Rocky
Hottop P/B
Niko

Post by Niko »

AAaarr Matey!!

...sorry, couldn't resist. You sounded like a pirate in that second part.


But that's great news, I wanted to wait a while and hear what you had to say about your mod after it's been broken in.
eprolix

Post by eprolix »

My VII arrived last week and is (I assume) one of the latest batch that has been modified in some way to have quieter fan operation. I hear the fan when it comes on, but it isn't loud at all. I didn't even notice it the first few days. Of course, after hearing the first time, I always hear it now. Quieter is better in my book.

Chas --
I have no basis for comparison with other VIIs but do you think the mod decsribed above would make my fan even quieter??
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chas
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Post by chas »

Yes, I bet that mod would make it even quieter. By having the fan bolted down right to the frame and the holes in the chassis not providing a complete opening beneath the fan, it will probably always be louder than it would be under more ideal conditions.

My fan was one of the noisier ones when I bought the VII. With that mod I can barely hear it when I am standing in front of the machine. I have to be listening for it. Previously, it was loud enough to hear 30ft away in the next room. If I take that same fan out of the unit and hold it in my hand while it is running, it is completely silent.
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.25 (US 120V)
Mazzer Kony E, Customized Rocky
Hottop P/B
JohnB

Post by JohnB »

I hadn't even noticed the fan noise until I paid attention today after reading this thread. Does it only kick in when the steam boiler heating element turns on?
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chas
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Post by chas »

Yes, it blows air on the Boiler Triac which supplies the current to the boiler heater element. Since at 110V the element requires twice the current for the same heating than it does at 220V, a fan is required for the 110V model but not for the 220V model.

Convective cooling is all that the 220V model requires. That's why the vent holes in the bottom don't line up with the fan. The fan was an afterthought for the US market.
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.25 (US 120V)
Mazzer Kony E, Customized Rocky
Hottop P/B
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