Compak K10 WBC

[Dodger1]

After way to much dd I pulled the trigger on a black one of these bad boys yesterday and another, more notable, forum member did the same; following my lead of course

[JohnB]

So true & mine will be here tomorrow!!! After spending several hours yesterday comparing a K30 Vario back to back with my dosered Major run off a timer I decided the K30 just wasn't for me. Its a very nice grinder but I preferred the distribution out of the Majors modded doser & I just don't think the looks would grow on me. Besides I already have an excellent flat burr grinder & I really wanted to try a conical.

That narrowed my list down to the K10WBC with a Nino being a big maybe. No pulse function & 220v only worked against the Nino. When Keith emailed me that CC was offering a nice discount off the $1417 website price of the WBC my choice was made. Can't wait unti it gets here so I can start modding it!!

[Dodger1]

So true & mine will be here tomorrow!!!

Sure, rub it in

[JohnB]

Sure, rub it in

What are you going to do with it if it shows up before the Mini gets back?? It will just be torturing you sitting on the counter cold & empty.

[Dodger1]

LOL - I could be doing the modifications you suggested but your right about torturing myself, with it just sitting on the counter, cold and empty. No grinder with the caliber of the K10 WBC deserves that fate.

[Endo]

Nice guys!

I have my eye on this baby (new Anfim Super Caimano v2.0) with digitial timer accurate to 1/100th sec!

http://www.49thparallelroasters.com/storeGrinders.html

Thank goodness they're out of stock!

[Dodger1]

Mark Prince loves his Super Caimano but for some unknown reason, that grinder never got a lot of attention?

http://coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/grinders/416304

[slo]

Endo, if you come to Montreal you can go an try the Super Caimano at Cafe Myriade on Mackay. They have one standing right beside a Robur.

They will serve you a cup from a LM Mistral with 49th Parallel coffe. Not a bad setup! Maybe worth the trip if you are really are considering the Super Camino.

Just information...

[Endo]

Endo, if you come to Montreal you can go an try the Super Caimano at Cafe Myriade on Mackay.

I get into Montreal quite often. They have the Anfim at both Myriade and Cafe in Gamba but it is the V1.0 model. I'm curious to try out the new V2.0 with the fancy built in dosing timer. A big Vario!

A very decent price for a top pro grinder ($1600 CAN). Guess that's why they're sold out until later this month.

[JohnB]

The Anfin seems to be popular in Canada but the U.S. reviews I read didn't make me want to buy one. I'm seeing prices around $1800 down here which is way more then I would spend on any flat burr grinder. Of all the commercial grinders that could be used in a home environment this one seems to have the least to offer a home user.

[slo]

A very decent price for a top pro grinder ($1600 CAN). Guess that's why they're sold out until later this month.

I personally thought that it was the best deal on the Canadian market! Bar none!

I just had my mind set on a doserless... and I do not think that the have the Super Caimano in timer and doserless yet. So I am patiently waiting for it or for an acceptably priced Nino...

John, I wouldn't say that. I think it is more home friendly than a Robur E or a Mahlkonig K30 (to only mentionn these two). What is important to one is not the same for another, obviously. What I am trying to say is that if it fits Endo's usage and kitchen then it is a good financial deal for us Canadian.

[JohnB]

Until Endo tries one no one knows if it fits his needs. In every review I've read including the positive ones the reviewer always mentions how touchy the adjustments are & how you really have to pay close attention every time you use it. For what? A 75mm flat burr grinder. In a busy cafe they say that the Anfin's set up can save you $$ due to its dosing precision. In a home environment I don't see it. Endo can talk about buying anything he choses, I'm just offering my opinion.

[Endo]

I've tried the V1.0 version. I like it a lot, but it's only a "dream grinder" for me.

I also saw a K10 (but didn't try it yet). It also seems great (it's actually a LOT bigger than I thought).

Just like owning a Buggati Veyron, while I think it's the best, I could never justify paying that much (even if I had the money). The only sensible choice in my mind is the Baratza Vario or a second hand Mazzer. Anything more expensive than that is for the true espresso hobbyists (or guys with just a lot more money than me).

[slo]

Until Endo tries one no one knows if it fits his needs. ... Endo can talk about buying anything he choses, I'm just offering my opinion.

So was I, John, just expressing an opinion. Your opinion is always welcome (by me) and the fact that I replied is proof enough that I value it. I am sorry if my comment was too sharp, I was not trying to beat off your opinions and arguments.

Anything more expensive than that (B-vario) is for the true espresso hobbyists (or guys with just a lot more money than me).

+1.

[JohnB]

Ok, back to the mighty K10. First let me say that I REALLY like this grinder! Even so I always modify my equipment if I see an area that could use improvement. So far I've added a Cocobolo handle (big surprise), placed sticky back Velcro on every other segment of the lower sweeper assy, sealed a gap where the metal chute meets the plastic chute(more velcro) & modified the stock plastic chute so its easier to sweep out. A side benefit of my chute mod is that the grounds move through a little quicker, don't pack in as densely, plus I can see & reach right into the burr chamber with my brush.

The WBC doser has a much nicer feel then the Macap or Mazzer grinders I've owned. The sweeper tolerances are tight enough that the only mod required was the bottom velcro mentioned. The upper sweeper wipes the exit hole cover plate clean & the clown hat adjuster sheds any grounds every time the handle snaps back.

The built in grounds tray is a nice feature & much easier to keep clean then the large stainless Mazzer trays. Of course if you are careful you won't find much in the tray as the doser has a deep exit chute which routes the grounds pretty much straight down with a slight leftward biase. No extensions required with this doser.

If you grind per dose you can get back almost everything you put in with a little brush work & a couple pulses. Grinding with beans in the hopper will leave about 3 grams in the stock chute(less in the modified chute) but I factor this in & sweep out the chute as part of each dose. Since modding the chute I can also pull out the grounds from one of the 3 burr chamber sweeper segments while clearing the chute further reducing waste. Lately I've been grinding hopperless just adding the needed beans to the throat & setting an empty Spice Islands bottle on top of the beans to prevent popcorning. Jim Shulman came up with that idea & it fits perfectly. When grinding with beans in the hopper I'll do a quick pulse & suck the stale grounds out of the burr chamber with my vac if some time has passed since the last session.

Cleaning is easy with an empty hopper as I can pull all the loose grounds out of the burr chamber by placing my vacuum nozzle over the chute & running the grinder. Any grounds stuck to the sweeper arms can be knocked off with your brush through the chute & sucked out with the vac. Unlike the flat burr grinders I've owned there are no grounds traps under the burrs. Run some Grindz through to clean off the oils, one more vac session & you are done.

The K10 produces light, fluffy grounds which may account for some of the exaggerated claims of grounds retention I've read on the forums. If you don't sweep out the chute & weigh the grounds you might actually believe that it holds 10g as I've seen posted in some of the threads as it looks like a lot. Since I check the weight of the tared basket before & after sweeping out the chute I can tell you it never exceeds 3g with the stock chute. With my modified chute I see 3g when I sweep out the chute and a burr segment. I haven't yet weighed what is left in the burr chamber when grinding with beans in the hopper but I'll do that the next time I use the hopper.

While I have the K10 plugged into the vintage Time-O-Lite timer I used with my Major I've only been using the pulse feature to save wear & tear on the stock K10 switch. Unlike my Major the 300rpm speed of the K10 pushes the grounds out slow enough that you can dose as you grind without the grinder getting ahead of you. I grind/dose until the tared basket is filled to a certain point, check the weight, sweep out the chute/dose/recheck. If my guess is short a quick pulse tops it up.

As for differences in the cup between the Major & the K10 I find that the K10 does a better job of bringing out (or separating) the layers of flavors in my blends & S/O espresso better then the Major did. Make no mistake the Major is an excellent flat burr grinder & I still use one with my MCaL but for the type of espresso I prefer my grinder upgrades are over.

[oton]

I haven't yet weighed what is left in the burr chamber when grinding with beans in the hopper but I'll do that the next time I use the hopper.

I don't know about K10, but the K3 left like 18gr or so in the burr chamber...

[JohnB]

[quote="oton]I don't know about K10, but the K3 left like 18gr or so in the burr chamber...[/quote]

You actually swept it out & weighed it?

[JohnB]

Well my curiosity got the best of me so I loaded up the hopper with a decaf blend from Klatch that I had open. Keep in mind that this blend was showing a fair amount of oil so I feel it would be stickier then the lighter, non oily roasts I normally use.

For instance I've never seen this thick layer of grounds stuck to the upper(outer) burr bottom when I've removed it in the past. Normally there would be little showing in this area.

upper burr.jpg (94.34 KiB) Viewed 21139 times

This is what the burr chamber looked like.

burr chamber.JPG (123.92 KiB) Viewed 21139 times

The chute:

chute.JPG (99.79 KiB) Viewed 21139 times

Total for the chute was 2.9g & the burr chamber/upper burr bottom provided another 10 grams. When I switch over to a non decaf blend or S/O with no oil showing I'll do another weighing session to see if there is a difference. I'll also see how much is left behind if I brush out the chute & a burr sweeper segment before opening up the chamber. This would approximate my normal procedure when grinding/dosing with beans in the hopper. I'm guess a little over 7g would still be in there based on the decaf but we'll see.

[oton]

Well, so can we say that K10 total grind retention is about 13gr?

[JohnB]

Well, so can we say that K10 total grind retention is about 13gr?

I've checked it several times since that post & with regular non oily beans(light to medium roast) that total number drops down to 10-11g. But that is with a total cleaning & is much more then you would need to purge between sessions if grinding with beans in the hopper. The chute is swept clean with every dose so your are only dealing with purging what would normally come out of the burr chamber with a new dose. a 6g purge clears that. Of course if you are single dosing then a bean purge is unnecessary. I normally put the vac nozzle up to the chute opening after an idle period & briefly run the grinder. This clears any old grounds that would contaminate the next shot & you will see an approx. 1g loss with the first shot. Any shot after that you will only lose a fraction of a gram until the next cleaning.