How loud is too loud?

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lrumanes

How loud is too loud?

Post by lrumanes »

I acquired my S1 a few years ago off ebay, abused and with a seized motor. A few whacks with a rubber mallet got it spinning again, but even after new motor mounts and dynamax everywhere, it's still way, way loud. Hair dryer loud, grinder loud. Whenever I'm at a coffee shop and they pull a silent shot for me, I wonder if my S1 is louder than everyone else's, from all that whacking or maybe a bad bearing. I've never seen or heard another one, and don't want to buy another motor just to find out they are all that way. Anyone have a recording, decibel level, or any ideas on how I can tell?

Thanks,

Louis

Salt Lake City, UT
Niko

Post by Niko »

It's not very loud at all, I don't have a decibal reading but I can send you a QuickTime movie if you'd like.
bbqnut

Post by bbqnut »

I think the "hair dryer" or "grinder" loud description, is a clue that something is wrong.

My machine is a little louder with no coffee in the PF because of water running through the plumbing at higher speed, but if someone is standing next to me, I can carry on a conversation.

BTW, what kind of noise is it?

Not knowing much, I have heard that rotary pumps if run dry for very long can be ruined. That may have been what happened before you got it. Not sure how much a new pump is, but that seems like a good candidate, regardless if you want to replace it or not. :wink:
blacroix

Post by blacroix »

Could you give Chris Coffee a call on the phone and have them listen? I'm sure they wouldn't mind doing so, especially if they are going to sell some replacement parts.
Niko

Post by Niko »

I sent him a movie with sound, hopefully he'll report back soon and tell us what's the latest...
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chas
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Post by chas »

I have a recording of what my S1 sounded like after replacement of the original motor mounts on this page:

http://www.rimpo.org/s1/S1MotorMounts.html

It autoplays when you enter the page but only works in Internet Explorer.

The noise could either be from the motor or the pump. I don't know which is less expensive to purchase but the location of the pump makes it a lot easier to replace.
Chas
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Niko

Post by Niko »

Louis,
Any word on your S1's health?
Just remembered your machine the other day when I accidentally turned on one of my machines without water going it.
It was very LOUD and painful.
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PBL
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How loud?

Post by PBL »

Purchased an S1 in Montreal at Christmas. Amazing machine. One question and it seems to be different for each owner, how loud should it be?

Mine is very quiet until the pump comes on. Then you here the pump sometimes loud, somtimes a bit louder. You really notice it in the morning. My wife says it is too loud, a $2,000 machine should be much quieter. Are most of the machines this loud new?
Niko

Post by Niko »

Not really, but some do break in and get quieter over time.
My old S1 was always pretty quiet and then about 7 months later it got really smooooooth and quiet.
My VII was much louder out of the gate and then it got progressively louder over the next several months and finally after about 10 months it started to get quieter - now it's as quiet as my other S1 :D
It's definitely the pump and it seems that few sound exactly alike, bearings and other things in the machine that can rattle cause the noises. The side panels are notorious for causing funny vibrating sounds, a little fine tuning here and there usually takes care of such nuisances :wink:
Like Chas says, you learn to become an espresso mechanic for these fine Italian machines...
JohnB

Post by JohnB »

If you place your hand on the drip tray cover when the pump is running the noise drops noticeably. That metal cover vibrates quite a bit when the pump runs & contributes to the noise level. Even with the cover removed my Vivaldi is much louder then my Vetrano was when the pump kicks in.
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chas
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Post by chas »

That sounds like the way the original S1s were before they redesigned the motor mounts. You might check to be sure the motor mounts are tight and that there isn't something loose internally that is touching the motor or pump and transmitting vibrations.

I assume you didn't somehow get one where they inadvertantly installed the old style mounts.

Here's the link to photos of the old and new motor mounts:
http://www.rimpo.org/s1/S1MotorMounts.html
Chas
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JohnB

Post by JohnB »

Thanks for the tip! The motor mounts were fine but the capacitor bracket that attaches to the top front of the motor was up against the frame member causing the extra noise. While moving it away from the frame rail I couldn't help but notice the classic Ducati logo on the capacitor. Since I've owned many of their motorcycles it's nice to see that the electronic division that got the company started is still in business after all these years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ducati_Energia The machine is now as quiet as I thought it should be with the pump running.

Here's a pic of the offending bracket if anyone wants to check it's positioning.Image
Niko

Post by Niko »

Yep, that's happened to several of us - including me last year.
ScottW posted this on another thread about a year ago with the same little issue that was fixed by tightening that bracket.
Someone in my family with an S1 has a broken bracket, the capacitor just lays on the motor with no rattling whatsoever :? - I guess he'll never need to tighten a bolt :lol:
JohnB

Post by JohnB »

Mine was nice & tight so I just bent the bracket back enough to clear the frame. I loosened the motor mounts first to see if there was enough slop in the mounting holes to give me more room but there wasn't.
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chas
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Post by chas »

If that makes as much difference as changing the motor mounts did, it was probably like night and day. The first time I turned my S1 on after installing the new motor mounts, I actually had a brief moment of panic. I thought I had knocked off an electrical connection and didn't even think the motor was running!

Before I changed those motor mounts the grill on the drip tray would vibrate and drive me crazy. I don't know if you're old enough to remember but when I was a kid they had these football games with a metal sheet for the playing field. That whole sheet vibrated like crazy and made the little football players skitter across the field. The S1 noise was like that!
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.25 (US 120V)
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JohnB

Post by JohnB »

You mean like this? http://www.amazon.com/Official-Super-Bo ... B00003GO0D
I was born in 1950 so I've owned a few of those old games.

Yes it made a really big difference in the noise level. Before it sounded like a loud vibe pump, now it sounds like a quiet rotary pump.
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chas
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Post by chas »

That's the one alright.

You really are an old fart. I was almost born in 1950 myself. My first 3 days were spent in the previous decade!
Chas
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jmcphail

Post by jmcphail »

... with the little cotton "pill" football ... you really needed an imagination to have fun with that!
Niko

Post by Niko »

I guess that makes me an old "something" else since I wasn't born in the 50's but I certainly played with that same 'ol football game. I'm from the 60's so my toys were pretty similar to your old fart toys :lol:

...now if you'll excuse me, I have some outgassing to do :wink:



A really cool thing to do is get some of those little football guys lined up on the cup warmer and watch them go as you pull shots!
Weska

Post by Weska »

Anybody remember the "submarine" that you mailed away for? You put baking soda in a chamber in its bottom. In the water, the soda formed a bubble that lifted the boat. It would then tilt and burp that bubble as it came to the surface, sink again, etc. (Born in '44.)
JohnB

Post by JohnB »

Weska wrote:Anybody remember the "submarine" that you mailed away for? You put baking soda in a chamber in its bottom. In the water, the soda formed a bubble that lifted the boat. It would then tilt and burp that bubble as it came to the surface, sink again, etc. (Born in '44.)
Absolutely! I have very fond memories of sailing that puppy in the bathtub.
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chas
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Post by chas »

Yep, had one of those too. My first robot was Mr. Machine. Remember that one?
Chas
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dsherman

Re: How loud is too loud?

Post by dsherman »

If anyone's still following this thread, my question regards noise level during warm-up. My S1 (Dec.'04) makes quite a bit of noise when warming up! No noise problem pulling shots. Just a lot of noise (vibrations/squeaks) while coming up to temperature. My S1 was disconnected for 2 months during kitchen remodel and it seems noisier now - but this may be because it was backed into a corner, under cabinets and now it's on an island in the open. I run on a well with Extremely Hard water and use a Chris' supplied filter/softener, but wonder if there's calcium buildup in the boiler causing loud warm up?

Thanks for your input.
JohnB

Re: How loud is too loud?

Post by JohnB »

My steam boiler was making a lot of noise on recovery, a loud knocking type noise. While waiting for my upgraded board to return I removed the boiler, disassembled & cleaned a fair amount of scale off the heating element. Now it is as quiet as it was when new. See my thread on the boilers in the Tips & Tricks section for more info.
Last edited by JohnB on Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
dsherman

Re: How loud is too loud?

Post by dsherman »

I removed the boiler, disassembled & cleaned a fair amount of scale off the heating element.
Yes, I saw your thread after posting this and, as I suspected, that's probably the answer. Is their an easier way to descale the boiler?
JohnB

Re: How loud is too loud?

Post by JohnB »

That was the easy way afaic. Remove a few wires, 3 hoses, 1 pipe & a single bolt to remove the boiler. Off comes the cover & with it the source of your problems; the heating coil. Alternatively you can fill the boiler with a nasty acid solution which may or may not get all the scale off (you'll never now) & then try to flush it all out of there possibly spilling it all over your counter. Still leaves the scale in your hose elbows unless you run the n/a/s through your entire machine & hope for the best. Much easier to see what has built up in the elbows when they are laying right in front of you.
dsherman

Re: How loud is too loud?

Post by dsherman »

Thanks, John. Looks as though I'll be cleaning the boiler! :roll:
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sakurama
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Re:

Post by sakurama »

chas wrote:If that makes as much difference as changing the motor mounts did, it was probably like night and day. The first time I turned my S1 on after installing the new motor mounts, I actually had a brief moment of panic. I thought I had knocked off an electrical connection and didn't even think the motor was running!

Before I changed those motor mounts the grill on the drip tray would vibrate and drive me crazy. I don't know if you're old enough to remember but when I was a kid they had these football games with a metal sheet for the playing field. That whole sheet vibrated like crazy and made the little football players skitter across the field. The S1 noise was like that!
THAT is exactly the noise that's driving me crazy and I thought it wasn't supposed to make. Okay, I'm going to order those on Monday. I thought the machine seemed loud but no amount of pressing on various components yielded any noticeable difference. For me it's my shot shot glass that subtlety wanders around under the portafilter as it's so light. Now all I need to fix is the leaking steam valve and I think I will be done.
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admin
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Re: How loud is too loud?

Post by admin »

Right, I had that problem as well. You couldn't just put the shot glass under the PF and let it go. If you didn't hold onto the shot glass it would "wonder" across the drip tray grill and your espresso would end up in the drip tray.
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PBL
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Re: How loud is too loud?

Post by PBL »

My S1 has become quite quiet over the last several months. It doesn't make any noise other than a bit of pump noise when the pump comes on. Certainly no vibration.

I have a little Breville Cafe Roma at the cottage. Now that is a noisy machine with a lot of vibration. You have to tie down the shot glass or it will wander right off the machine. The thumpa thumpa of the pump is also quite loud. Makes the Vivaldi S1 look like a fine tuned Italian sports car by comparison.
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