1.17 Bug Reports / Questions

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1.17 Bug Reports / Questions

Postby chas » Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:55 pm

From Jason at CCS:

We have the new 1.17 update on our site. Since many people never updated the 1.14 version I linked all the updates together just to limit confusion. They fixed the AM/PM problem and more importantly the offset works. They increased the "hidden" offset so the temperature should be accurate at 0 and then they also added a 10 degree +/- adjustable offset which does not turn the heaters off if you use it.

As far as the light problem (One Cup and Hot Water lights off after profile change) goes I am not sure if they did that on purpose to let someone know the profile has changed or just another bug that got overlooked.

As far as the PID goes, it is emulated in the software.
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Re: 1.17 Bug Reports / Questions

Postby goodboyr » Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:07 pm

Software emulated PID could explain my once off issue with the observed temperature wander. I will update to 1.17 and keep an eye out for a reoccurence.
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Re: 1.17 Bug Reports / Questions

Postby chas » Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:34 pm

This isn't specifically a 1.17 issue. I first noticed it right before updating to 1.17 and it is still there afterwards. It wasn't there about 30 minutes prior when I fixed a cap and I have never seen it before. This is the large E in the upper left corner of the display.

Anyone ever seen this? If so, did you figure out what it means?

BTW: After loading 1.17 I dropped the temp to 94C and also changed the profile. The "E" is still there. I did also note that the "bug" where the 1-cup and Hot Water lamps go off when you change profiles is still there.
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Re: 1.17 Bug Reports / Questions

Postby goodboyr » Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:42 pm

I've never seen the "E". But I do have a question........are you running with a 100 Deg. C brew temp setpoint?
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Re: 1.17 Bug Reports / Questions

Postby chas » Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:36 pm

On ver 1.14, I had to run at 100C to get a nice stable 93C out according to the Scace. Now that I have 1.17 installed, I'll retest tomorrow to see how it is now.
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Re: 1.17 Bug Reports / Questions

Postby chas » Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:44 pm

Rumor has it that the "E" might stand for Economy mode. I checked and I am in 20A aka Full Power Mode. However, I noticed when I turned the steam boiler off the "E" symbol turns off. So if the "E" does mean economy mode then it seems like my machine has hiccuped and the "E" is displayed in the wrong mode. I guess I may need to try a reset tomorrow to see if that corrects it.
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Re: 1.17 Bug Reports / Questions

Postby goodboyr » Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:02 pm

Lol. I guess between you and I we've confirmed that early adopters of software based products help take the "beta" out! Looks like theres a few more revs of firmware on the way.
This is still a fabulous machine, the espresso is great, and the software has addressed the one issue that actually bothered me which was the timer not working after a power off. All this other stuff is interesting but ultimately second or third order to the basic working.
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Re: 1.17 Bug Reports / Questions

Postby chas » Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:35 am

Yes, the "E" does mean economy mode and it should also show up in Full Power mode when the Boiler is off. However, something has hiccuped in my machine so that "E" is displayed in Full Power Mode and/or when the Boiler is On;i.e. assbackwards from the way it is supposed to work. I am about to try the Factory reset mode to see if that will clear it. I know that will clear everything else. :-?
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Re: 1.17 Bug Reports / Questions

Postby goodboyr » Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:22 am

Are you sure about the E being displayed when boiler is off, in full power 20 amp mode? I don't get an E when I turn off the steam boiler, the indicator for boiler temp in the lower right of the screen disappears, but thats all.
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Re: 1.17 Bug Reports / Questions

Postby Johnlyn » Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:58 pm

goodboyr wrote: the software has addressed the one issue that actually bothered me which was the timer not working after a power off.


Just curiouse because I have been impressed that the ridiculousely expensive V2 timer actually keeps all the information following power off. Your's didn't?
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Re: 1.17 Bug Reports / Questions

Postby chas » Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:35 pm

Factory reset did clear my errant "E" problem. Of course I had to reset all the defaults again.

With that done I did a quick check using the Scace device and the group temp set to 94C. For perhaps the last 1/3 of the shot the Scace temp had settled about 92C and the displayed group temp had dropped to 92C. So I entered a +2C offset. Looks like that will do it if you do two flushes first after not using the machine for a while.

I still need to do a lot more testing to decide whether +2C (+4F) will be right on or whether +1C (+2F) will be good enough. At the very least moving to 1.17 with 0 offset should give a much better result that 0 offset and any of the earlier SW versions.
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Re: 1.17 Bug Reports / Questions

Postby goodboyr » Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:54 pm

Johnlyn wrote:
goodboyr wrote: the software has addressed the one issue that actually bothered me which was the timer not working after a power off.


Just curiouse because I have been impressed that the ridiculousely expensive V2 timer actually keeps all the information following power off. Your's didn't?


In the original version of the software, when you manually powered off the machine, that meant that it would also turn off the timer. They fixed that with the newer versions of the software.
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Re: 1.17 Bug Reports / Questions

Postby goodboyr » Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:59 pm

chas wrote:Factory reset did clear my errant "E" problem. Of course I had to reset all the defaults again.

With that done I did a quick check using the Scace device and the group temp set to 94C. For perhaps the last 1/3 of the shot the Scace temp had settled about 92C and the displayed group temp had dropped to 92C. So I entered a +2C offset. Looks like that will do it if you do two flushes first after not using the machine for a while.

I still need to do a lot more testing to decide whether +2C (+4F) will be right on or whether +1C (+2F) will be good enough. At the very least moving to 1.17 with 0 offset should give a much better result that 0 offset and any of the earlier SW versions.


I would conclude from this that the displayed group temp is accurately reflecting the brewing temp. That's a lot easier to deal with than machines that have an offset between what you see on the display and the actual temp. I think they must have done something to the way the PID is implemented in the 1.17 to make it a lot more precise control. I am really impressed by how responsive CCS and La Spaziale is to the issues we observe.
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Re: 1.17 Bug Reports / Questions

Postby chas » Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:03 am

There is always going to be a temperature drop between the boiler and the group head even with a couple of warming flushes. It appears to be about 2C (or 4F) on my Dream.

If I have a coffee that tastes best with 94C water, I would prefer to set the front panel displayed temp to 94C and then use a +2C offset to ensure that the water at the top of the puck is as close to 94C as possible. Certainly you can set the FP temp to 96C and the offset to 0C and get the same result. The main difference is that you need to know what the actual offset is and do the math in your head when changing temps for different coffees if you opt for the latter method. However, if you use the offset method, you just set the group temp to what you want the water temp exiting the group head to be and forget about it.
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Re: 1.17 Bug Reports / Questions

Postby goodboyr » Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:39 pm

Ok. Understood. Thanks.

ps. Looks like I have an faulty brew boiler temperature sensor or connection after all. The displayed temp went for another wander this morning, instantaneously bouncing around from 195 deg F to 216 and back. I opened the top cover and checked the connections (theres a little plug that connects the sensor to the cable going to the front panel), and that didnt help. Although moving the wire around did cause the temp to bounce around. So, either a faulty sensor or cable.
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Re: 1.17 Bug Reports / Questions

Postby chas » Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:12 pm

For reference, here's a link to a Wikipedia page that shows the temp vs. resistance curve for the PT1000 sensor used in the Dream.

PT 1000 Sensor Stats

If there is a bad connection in the wiring then I would think this would only add resistance to the reading and cause false high readings. However, if the reading is also going below the boiler temperature value, then it might be a problem in the sensor itself.

If the controller board is getting incorrect sensor readings, is it acting appropriately on them? In other words, when the temperature on the display drifts below the set point is the Wavy line On indicating that the boiler is turning On and trying to heat the water. Also, when the displayed temperature has drifted above the set temperature, is the wavy line always Off?
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Re: 1.17 Bug Reports / Questions

Postby goodboyr » Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:18 pm

Yes. The controller is responding correctly (and quickly) to the bad sensor, and the wavy lines appears correctly when the displayed number is below the setpoint.

Just waiting for a call back from my retailer to see whether they have the necessary parts in stock so I can bring it in for repair.
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Re: 1.17 Bug Reports / Questions

Postby chas » Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:16 pm

Mea Culpa on my part. I was about to connect my digital thermometer in logging mode so that I could run some tests, then download and plot the data on my PC. It was at that point I noticed that the digital thermometer was set for a K-type thermocouple and the Scace uses a "T" thermocouple.

The T thermocouple reads lower so now I am getting readings consistent with what I was getting with SW ver. 1.14. LaSpaziale bumped the max positive offset from 4C to 6C (10F). I set the temp to 94C and the offset to +6C and the digital thermometer hits 94C at the instant the water shuts off after two warming flushes. I wish they had made the range at least +8C. I think +7C would work better than +6C. However, I will do my testing using the 94C setting with the +6C offset and see what happens.
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Re: 1.17 Bug Reports / Questions

Postby goodboyr » Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:51 pm

Here's a video of whats happening. It starts during the warmup. Things look ok till about 195 deg and then it gets crazy.

Dream Temperature Display Problem
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Re: 1.17 Bug Reports / Questions

Postby fiddlefadel » Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:42 pm

Chas, I'm having the same E notice issue that you had. I'm rtunning 20 amp with no firmware updates. How do I find the reset function?
thanks
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Re: 1.17 Bug Reports / Questions

Postby chas » Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:12 am

fiddlefadel wrote:Chas, I'm having the same E notice issue that you had. I'm running 20 amp with no firmware updates. How do I find the reset function?
thanks
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You have to get into factory mode which is the very last menu item on the very last screen. This also requires the password given in the Users Manual. Once you have unlocked this menu you will see that this is also where you change the offset and change between 15A and 20A mode in addition to doing a factory reset. Since Factory reset truly wipes out all settings - even the serial number - you might want to try changing the mode to 15A then back to 20A first to see if that will straighten it out. Otherwise, get ready to completely reset up the machine from scratch. The next time the machine does and Off/On cycle you will have to re-enter the serial number, too.

The latter item is on Chris' list for one of the upcoming SW updates since he obviously doesn't want the serial number in the machine to be able to get wiped by the user. Be sure to re-enter the same number as listed on the decal on the chassis decal label seen when the drip tray is removed.
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Re: 1.17 Bug Reports / Questions

Postby chas » Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:38 am

goodboyr wrote:Here's a video of whats happening. It starts during the warmup. Things look ok till about 195 deg and then it gets crazy.

Dream Temperature Display Problem


BTW: I mentioned this to Tim at CCS and he said that this issue has come up once before and replacing the temperature sensor fixed it. You mentioned that you wanted to find a local shop to fix this for you? If you can remove the side covers and back panel using a Phillips screw driver, that is harder and takes more time that replacing the group temperature sensor. If you don't have a set of metric box wrenches even an adjustable wrench will work. The only caveat is to remember to turn off the water first. :shock:
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Re: 1.17 Bug Reports / Questions

Postby goodboyr » Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:29 am

Thanks. Definitely getting worse. It's staying at a low temp indication, even though the boiler is on full blast. Finally alarmed at "high group temperature". I have been in contact with my retailer, and they are waiting for the temperature sensor from CCS (I am in Canada). I will let them do the work since its under warranty and I'd rather they replace and then check with a scace to ensure its reading right. Thanks for the help!
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Re: 1.17 Bug Reports / Questions

Postby fiddlefadel » Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:06 pm

Chas, thanks for the reset warning. I tried changing to the 15amp and back to the 20 but the E remains on when the steam boiler is on.
I think I will wait for a fix.
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Re: 1.17 Bug Reports / Questions

Postby goodboyr » Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:43 pm

I've found that the "READ/WRITE" function actually works and will save and restore your settings so that you don't have to re enter following a reset. I used it during my attempts to solve my temp sensor issue. Just remember the words are backwards. "Read" is used to read and store the machine settings. You do this before the reset. "Write" is used to restore the settings after the reset.
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Re: 1.17 Bug Reports / Questions

Postby chas » Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:26 pm

goodboyr wrote:I've found that the "READ/WRITE" function actually works and will save and restore your settings so that you don't have to re enter following a reset. I used it during my attempts to solve my temp sensor issue. Just remember the words are backwards. "Read" is used to read and store the machine settings. You do this before the reset. "Write" is used to restore the settings after the reset.


The Time and Date are also included in the Read/Write function. So when you later use the Write function to restore your settings, your date/time will be set to when the Read function was originally performed. It will need to be updated to the current time and date.

I also noted that the profile names don't seem to be included in the backup file, only the actual settings for each profile. However, the profile names are maintained somehow. For example, if I do a Factory Reset after the Read(Backup), the profile names go back to the default names of User1, User2, etc. Then if you do the Write (restore) function, the profile data is restored and the original profile names are also restored even though I see those names nowhere in the backup file. This one really has me scratching my head.
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