Cleaning/Descaling the boilers

This forum contains various threads with photos on how to perform various maintenance and repairs on your S1.
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JohnB

Cleaning/Descaling the boilers

Post by JohnB »

Here's a few pics & tips on how you can clean out the boilers without filling them with a descaling solution. Starting with the group boiler I "carefully" removed the finned brass retaining nut from the rear of the boiler using a pipe wrench. It is on tight but a quick pull broke it loose. Once off you need to gently tap on the insert to break the seal so you can wiggle it out. There is a pin in the insert cover that indexes with the body of the boiler so do not attempt to twist the insert until the pin is free.

Both the heating element & boiler were free of scale so I just wiped out the boiler & scuffed off the element using a red 3M scuff pad. Here is a pic of each although it was tough to get a decent pic of the inside of the group boiler.

The g/b cover seals with an o'ring recessed in the cover & a soft thread sealant where the brass nut screws on.
Attachments
Group Boiler Inside.jpg
Group Boiler Inside.jpg (85.71 KiB) Viewed 24834 times
You can see the indexing pin on the inside top section of the cover
You can see the indexing pin on the inside top section of the cover
Group Heater.jpg (53.45 KiB) Viewed 24834 times
Last edited by JohnB on Tue Jul 15, 2008 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
JohnB

Re: Cleaning/Descaling the boilers

Post by JohnB »

Next I removed the wires/hoses from the steam boiler & pulled it out of the machine after removing the drain cover & one retaining screw from the front. After removing the retaining bolts a couple light taps broke the cover assy. free from the gasket & the cover/element lifted out of the boiler. As you can see from the pics below the heater had a coating of scale that looked like a light frost. The inside of the boiler was free of scale & there were no brass chips to be found.
Attachments
Steam Boiler Inside.JPG
Steam Boiler Inside.JPG (65.3 KiB) Viewed 24821 times
More Scale.JPG
More Scale.JPG (50.89 KiB) Viewed 24818 times
Steam Heater Scale.JPG
Steam Heater Scale.JPG (76.66 KiB) Viewed 24824 times
Last edited by JohnB on Tue Jul 15, 2008 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
JohnB

Re: Cleaning/Descaling the boilers

Post by JohnB »

I used a flat bladed screw driver to clean the gasket out of the groove in the body & a razor blade paint scraper to clean off the surface on the cover. This was followed by a scrub with the red 3M pad to leave a nice clean sealing surface. I found that warming up the gasket with a heat gun/hair dryer helped with the removal process.

What you saw for scale on the heater is the result of 6 months of use with 80-90 ppm water. Not too bad but I will play with my mixture some more & see if I can get the hardness down some & still be happy with the taste. If not I'll just plan on pulling the steam boiler out for a cleaning every 6-9 months.

All the elbows were still clear including the one coming off the water control valve. Parts required are the Group Boiler o'ring #7418 & the Steam Boiler gasket #899. Cost was approx. $15 for both + shipping from Chris Coffee Service.
Attachments
The gasket surface after cleaning
The gasket surface after cleaning
Gasket Surface.JPG (71.1 KiB) Viewed 24817 times
Not being particularly patient I opted to bead blast the scale off as opposed to soaking in descaler.
Not being particularly patient I opted to bead blast the scale off as opposed to soaking in descaler.
Steam Heater Clean.JPG (65.91 KiB) Viewed 24814 times
Last edited by JohnB on Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:11 am, edited 2 times in total.
Niko

Re: Cleaning/Descaling the boilers

Post by Niko »

Nice work, John!
Nice to see the machine eviscerated for all to see :P
I really enjoyed seeing the inside of the group boiler, it's pretty rare to see that little guy open.
I'm amazed with the scale build up, seen much worse but that's quite a bit for a young machine like yours.
JohnB

Re: Cleaning/Descaling the boilers

Post by JohnB »

I rechecked my water hardness before refilling the boilers & it was right at 80ppm so I cut back on the hard water mix which brought it down to 60ppm. We'll see how that tastes tomorrow when I try out the pre infusion. I ran the machine up to full temp tonight & got it back in V2 mode & off Economy. Left the offset at zero as that was where CC had set it originally. I will be borrowing a Scace Device & running some temp checks in the near future but thats fine for now.

I couldn't help but notice how quiet the steam boiler is after the cleaning. Its virtually silent warming up, in fact at first I didn't think it was working! I left the covers off for the warm up/leak test as I want to retighten the boiler cover screws & other fittings in the morning. I imagine that the new s/b gasket will compress after a hot/cool cycle as I found the bolts on the loose side when I removed the cover.

One thing to keep in mind with the s/b scale build up is that I draw a liter of water every afternoon for my wifes tea carafe. That along with the normal usage & slightly hard water might account for that amount of scale in 6 months. I am surprised that what looked like a light coating to me would make that much difference in noise output from the boiler. At least I now know what to listen for in the future & what to do about it.
zoey

Re: Cleaning/Descaling the boilers

Post by zoey »

Did you say how old your machine is?
hlsheppard

Re: Cleaning/Descaling the boilers

Post by hlsheppard »

VERY impressive pics, John!

I know that I need to do the same and am virtually terrified to do it! I'm nowhere near as handy with such things as you are (can tell be reading your posts) and don't know if I could handle the number of days without coffee that I would have to endure.

Hopefully this isn't obvious to everyone else, but where do you buy the new gaskets, etc to put the machine back together? For a guy with a very limited toolbox - is there anything special that I would need tool-wise?
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chas
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Re: Cleaning/Descaling the boilers

Post by chas »

Thanks John. I guess the moral of your story is that the steam boiler can probably benefit from periodic descaling but not the group boiler.

BTW: What was the condition of your wires connecting to the steam boiler heat element?
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.25 (US 120V)
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JohnB

Re: Cleaning/Descaling the boilers

Post by JohnB »

hlsheppard wrote:VERY impressive pics, John!

I know that I need to do the same and am virtually terrified to do it! I'm nowhere near as handy with such things as you are (can tell be reading your posts) and don't know if I could handle the number of days without coffee that I would have to endure.

Hopefully this isn't obvious to everyone else, but where do you buy the new gaskets, etc to put the machine back together? For a guy with a very limited toolbox - is there anything special that I would need tool-wise?
The gaskets came from CC, I've added the part numbers to my 3rd post above. As far as tools to r&r the steam boiler: a Phillips screwdriver, a flat blade screwdriver(loosen cover & clean gasket recess), metric socket set (10mm), metric wrenches (10mm, 13mm, 15mm, 17mm), red 3M scuff pad, wire cutter (to remove wire ties), new wire ties, single edge razor blade or scraper, small adjustable wrench(crescent), means to remove scale.

I tried soaking the heating element in a Cleancaf solution for about 2 hours & couldn't see where it did a darn thing. Maybe if you left it over night it would work but I have to wonder how effective it is when you do a "normal" descale. I bead blasted mine clean but not everyone has 3000 sq ft of garage/shop space filled with tools & handy gadgets.

You will want to remove the boiler from the machine but it's only held in place by 1 bolt & the drain cap once you disconnect the lines/wires. Be sure to make a detailed wiring diagram before disconnecting the wires on top of the S/B & note the correct orientation of the cover.

If you are going to open the Group Boiler you will either need the correct toothed spanner, a pipe wrench or a similar tool that will grab the "fins" & not slip. The nut is on there pretty tight so something with a long handle helps.

I used Rectorseal 5 pipe thread sealer on all connections that required sealant & I highly recommend it over teflon tape.
JohnB

Re: Cleaning/Descaling the boilers

Post by JohnB »

chas wrote:Thanks John. I guess the moral of your story is that the steam boiler can probably benefit from periodic descaling but not the group boiler.

BTW: What was the condition of your wires connecting to the steam boiler heat element?
I can only say that after 6 months of regular use the group boiler was pretty clean. I did go over the element with a scuff pad because I had it out but there was very little build up on there. Might be worth a look in there to check for shavings??

I took a good look at all the connections on top of the boiler & all were as new. No rubber caps like on your boiler, just clear sleeves over the heater connections & molex style(white plastic) connectors on the others.
JohnB

Re: Cleaning/Descaling the boilers

Post by JohnB »

I was playing with the steam boiler water level probe yesterday & one thing lead to another as they often do. Ended up pulling the cover, descaling the heating element in my blast cabinet & scrubbing out the inside. It had been 9 months since I'd last descaled but it wasn't too bad. No loud popping noises when the boiler heated up.

Since it had been over a year (7/08) since I'd looked in the brew boiler I figured I'd better check it out, especially after the damage that mgannon found in his recently. First off I had one heck of a time getting the retaining ring to unscrew. When I finally got it off I could see why, the threads were full of a nasty rust like corrosion. When I put the boiler back together the threads will be coated with high temp Never Seize paste so this shouldn't happen again. I soaked the brass/bronze retaining ring in Cafizia solution & that cleaned the corrosion off those threads but the plated threads on the body needed serious brushing with a stiff bristle nylon brush to clean up. After looking inside the boiler I will never wait this long to open it up again. There was a fair amount of loose white scale floating around in the brew water :pukeleft: & some ugly looking green scale/mineral deposits built up in several different areas. As with mgannon's boiler the worst area was at the coupling where the boiler attaches to the grouphead assy. Not a huge amount but very stubborn to remove & when they are gone you will have pitting left behind. The heating element had only a very light coating of white fuzzy scale showing & a quick blast in the cabinet had it looking like new.

Just as a heads up I've found Cleancaf Cleaner/Descaler to be virtually worthless at removing much of anything. Even when mixed double strength in boiling hot water it's a waste of time & money. I flipped the machine on its face so I could fill the brew boiler with solution & even after a total of over 15 hours of soaking the Cleancaf had hardly touched the green scale. I filled the boiler with white vinegar this morning & will let that work on the deposits for a few hours. If that doesn't clean it up I'll break down & go searching for some citric acid powder.

Bottom line is you NEED to open up the brew boiler & clean it out regularly if you are finding scale in the steam boiler.
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