S1V1 Motor (one more time)

This forum contains various threads with photos on how to perform various maintenance and repairs on your S1.
Post Reply
robertdrucker

S1V1 Motor (one more time)

Post by robertdrucker »

First of all, my apologies for the rotated pictures. They look right at first, but when inserted, get turned.

So after a few days of a strange noise which almost sounded like air in the water line, I am only getting street pressure through the group head. I have seen the great documentation on taking the motor apart, but upon opening up, I found the capacitor sitting next to the boiler. The second picture shows the burnt plastic cover. I slipped the cover off and don't see any scorch marks on the capacitor itself. So, is there a way to bypass the capacitor and test the motor before disassembling everything? Or to test the capacitor first? I only have a few basic tools and an ohm meter. I did try a pour with the back open, and I hear nothing.

download/file.php?mode=view&id=1261&sid ... ew&id=1261
Attachments
Photo Oct 02, 3 22 59 PM.jpg
Photo Oct 02, 3 22 59 PM.jpg (527.79 KiB) Viewed 15017 times
Photo Oct 02, 3 38 23 PM.jpg
Photo Oct 02, 3 38 23 PM.jpg (475.86 KiB) Viewed 15017 times
User avatar
chas
Vivaldi Dreamer
Posts: 3044
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:52 pm
Location: Central Maryland
Contact:

Re: S1V1 Motor (one more time)

Post by chas »

I've seen a number of owner's machines where the bolt that holds the capacitor above the motor loosened up and the capacitor was rattling against the top of the motor. However, yours is the first one to completely falling off. The main purpose of the capacitor is to kick start the motor. Once the motor is actually up and running the capacitor doesn't do much. I am not sure if the motor will even start without the capacitor so trying your proposed test may not indicate whether the capacitor or the motor is bad. If you have a local machine shop that you could take the motor to, they could probably test it.

Or you could just assume that the capacitor is bad and install a replacement as the first step since the cost of that part is pretty low - at least compared to the motor and pump!
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.25 (US 120V)
Mazzer Kony E, Customized Rocky
Hottop P/B
MDL
Barista
Posts: 329
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 11:29 am
Location: San Diego

Re: S1V1 Motor (one more time)

Post by MDL »

From your pictures it looks to me as if the capacitor hit some other electrical connection that shorted and burned the plastic cover. The wires for the capacitor are on the end and look to be unburned in your picture, and based upon your comments.

I would look around where the capacitor was sitting for other shorted/burned connections?
robertdrucker

Re: S1V1 Motor (one more time)

Post by robertdrucker »

I don't see any scorched wiring, just the capacitor plastic cover. Electrical supply houses are closed today, so I'll wait until Monday to try to get a replacement capacitor first, to see if it's a simple fix. In the meantime, it appears the cement at the top of the bottom of the capacitor failed, hence it dropping free. I didn't think I had a hearing issue, but maybe I sould get it checked! I should have heard some rattling at some point.
Attachments
Photo Oct 03, 11 09 19 AM.jpg
Photo Oct 03, 11 09 19 AM.jpg (451.4 KiB) Viewed 14975 times
Photo Oct 03, 11 08 41 AM.jpg
Photo Oct 03, 11 08 41 AM.jpg (561.25 KiB) Viewed 14975 times
User avatar
chas
Vivaldi Dreamer
Posts: 3044
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:52 pm
Location: Central Maryland
Contact:

Re: S1V1 Motor (one more time)

Post by chas »

Not only do you get the award for first machine to ever have this particular issue but you also get the award for dustiest machine ever! :twisted:
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.25 (US 120V)
Mazzer Kony E, Customized Rocky
Hottop P/B
robertdrucker

Re: S1V1 Motor (one more time)

Post by robertdrucker »

Since I couldn't get a capacitor to try over the weekend, I thought I would at least try to get the motor and pump out. The results are pretty much in line with everyone else who has had the issues. Pump turns by hand, but not the motor. Since I don't want to extend my limited mechanical ability by opening the motor, I plan on taking everything to a shop. Am I correct in assuming I trace the wires coming out of the pigtail, take pictures and then disconnect from the machine?
Attachments
Photo Oct 04, 8 23 34 AM.jpg
Photo Oct 04, 8 23 34 AM.jpg (621.1 KiB) Viewed 14939 times
Photo Oct 04, 8 23 51 AM.jpg
Photo Oct 04, 8 23 51 AM.jpg (566.99 KiB) Viewed 14939 times
robertdrucker

Re: S1V1 Motor (one more time)

Post by robertdrucker »

Oh, and Chas thank you for the award! :)
User avatar
chas
Vivaldi Dreamer
Posts: 3044
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:52 pm
Location: Central Maryland
Contact:

Re: S1V1 Motor (one more time)

Post by chas »

Even though the pump turned by hand, the reason that this corrosion happens to the motor is that the seal on the pump shaft starts to leak and that water corrodes the front motor bearing. So you should take the pump to the repair shop as well and get its seals replaced.

Taking photos of all the wire connections before disconnecting the motor is a great idea.

Even if you have a repair shop tackle this for you there are still two additional things you should do before reinstallation:

1) Drill out the drain hole at the front of the motor housing to a larger size. If you don't have a power drill so that you can do this yourself, ask the machine shop to do it for you. The hole that is currently there is supposed to drain out any water that gets in there so that the front of the motor stays dry. However, the hole is too small for the job. Water collects in there and doesn't run out through the hole.

2) Smear the front of the motor adjacent to the shaft with some water proof, high temp, food grade grease. Should water still get into this area, the grease will act as a barrier to ensure that water doesn't get into the front bearing. Be sure not to block the enlarged drain hole with the grease.
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.25 (US 120V)
Mazzer Kony E, Customized Rocky
Hottop P/B
robertdrucker

Re: S1V1 Motor (one more time)

Post by robertdrucker »

Great advice. To what diameter should the drain hole be opened?
User avatar
chas
Vivaldi Dreamer
Posts: 3044
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:52 pm
Location: Central Maryland
Contact:

Re: S1V1 Motor (one more time)

Post by chas »

Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.25 (US 120V)
Mazzer Kony E, Customized Rocky
Hottop P/B
User avatar
chas
Vivaldi Dreamer
Posts: 3044
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:52 pm
Location: Central Maryland
Contact:

Re: S1V1 Motor (one more time)

Post by chas »

While you have the covers off and are waiting for the motor to come back from the repair shop, there is one more thing that would be good to check.

The two wires that attach to the heater elements on the steam boiler have black caps that cover the connectors. Pop those off and check the condition of the wires where they enter the crimp connectors. That is a very humid location and moisture gets up under those black caps and tends to corrode the copper between where the insulation ends and where the wire goes into the crimp connector. This will heat up those connections and eventually one or both may melt. On my machine even the black caps partially melted when those connections failed.

Unless those wires look pristine, you may want to cut a small amount off the end of the wire and install one or both new crimp connectors.
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.25 (US 120V)
Mazzer Kony E, Customized Rocky
Hottop P/B
robertdrucker

Re: S1V1 Motor (one more time)

Post by robertdrucker »

Update: Denver is still a cow-town! 15 calls to assorted electric motor repair, machine shops, vacuum repair (I was getting desperate), etc., I finally found two shops that would look at it. First one wanted to charge $195 diagnostic fee. This after I showed complete repair details compliments of gschroeder81. The second thought they could repair in one to two hours at $90 per hour. A new motor from CC is $169. I was tempted to buy the appropriate tools for DIY, but thought the cost of a Xanex prescription might put me over budget. So, my current thinking is to send the pump off to JC Beverage (still $45.50 plus freight) and get a new motor from CC (which includes new capacitor). In the meantime I'll check the heater element connectors and try to clean off 10 years of dust!
If anyone has any suggestions, feel free to weigh in.
User avatar
chas
Vivaldi Dreamer
Posts: 3044
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:52 pm
Location: Central Maryland
Contact:

Re: S1V1 Motor (one more time)

Post by chas »

This probably goes without saying but I'll say it anyway! Even if you buy a new motor, drill out the drain hole to 1/4" and put some high temp food grade lube around the motor shaft.

Also, if you order a new motor from CCS you are already over the limit for free shipping. Be sure to take advantage of this and order any small items you might need such as espresso cleaning products, new PF gaskets, etc.
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.25 (US 120V)
Mazzer Kony E, Customized Rocky
Hottop P/B
robertdrucker

Re: S1V1 Motor (one more time)

Post by robertdrucker »

Thanks for the reminder and advice. I'll update my post at the end of the month after I return from traveling.
robertdrucker

Re: S1V1 Motor (one more time)

Post by robertdrucker »

While waiting for the delayed shipment of my motor, I opened up the boiler. In addition for the award for dirtiest machine, I believe I now have earned one for the most mineral buildup in a steam boiler! Yikes!
And it looks like the heating element is going to need some work as well.

And looking at the condition of some of the wires, I probably should consider splicing new wire in.

Do we think the citric acid bath is going to work on a boiler that has been neglected so long?
Attachments
20151106_011001251_iOS.jpg
20151106_011001251_iOS.jpg (606.61 KiB) Viewed 14524 times
20151106_012532294_iOS.jpg
20151106_012532294_iOS.jpg (540.93 KiB) Viewed 14524 times
20151106_012332860_iOS.jpg
20151106_012332860_iOS.jpg (458.11 KiB) Viewed 14524 times
Post Reply

Return to “Maintenance and Repair”