S1V1 Motor

This forum contains various threads with photos on how to perform various maintenance and repairs on your S1.
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rhinoevans
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S1V1 Motor

Post by rhinoevans » Tue Dec 30, 2014 4:26 pm

I have had the S1V1 since 2003, with little problems in the last 11 years. Minor stuff, probably the most troubling was with the steam boiler. Had 2 issues: no water to the boiler and when I finally got water to the boiler, it would over fill. We almost always do iced coffee, so not the big of a deal. No steam for the last 3-4 years , but awesome espresso for the iced drinks.

This morning no water pressure from the group head. So water, but mainly street pressure. Took it apart and it was the front motor bearing, totally sized. Pump looked and felt ok.

Read all the articles on the forum about pump and motor replacement, but was unclear on how to actually take the motor apart. Removed the 4 long bolts, but still seemed like a solid unit. So I hammered the front spindle on the motor in the motor and the casing started to separate. Finally was able to take the motor totally apart. Now to look for a electrical workshop to help with the bearings. Found a place on Main Street in Vegas (Carsons Electronic). The guy fixed it on the spot while I waited. He recommended replacing both bearings even though it was only the front that was bad. He also sand blasted the motor housing to remove all the calcification from the water. Put it all back to get her and good as new. Installed and works great. Very quiet. While I had it all apart, thought I would take one last look at the boiler issue. As I was reinstalling the motor, I saw a broken wire on the top of the boiler. Toward the back of the boiler, secured with a bolt on the outer perimeter and had 2 wires secured with the bolt. The one that was broke was I believe yellow with a green strip. Hooked up the water lines, plugged it in, and all is good. Even the boiler. Do not have any idea what the wire does. Steamed and pulled some espresso. Motor oh so quiet, and very nice to have steam back. And cost was $35 for labor and two bearing. What a deal, since new motors are $169. long live the S1. Have been looking for an excuse to replace it, but not during the holidays season with money flowing in different direction. Actually next move is upgrad my grinder to either the Electronic Super Jolly or maybe the K30. One last thing, if you have a motor problem, with a bad bearing, don't even bother trying to take it apart. Carsons Electronic was have done that for me at no additional charge.

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chas
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Re: S1V1 Motor

Post by chas » Tue Dec 30, 2014 5:00 pm

Glad to hear the fix was so cheap. Usually the pump seal goes and the water then leaks into the motor and toasts the bearings. You must have the first one to lose a bearing without a water leak being the cause.

It's no surprise that your steam boiler was overfilling. The broken wire is the ground wire for the water level probe.
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rhinoevans
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Re: S1V1 Motor

Post by rhinoevans » Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:24 pm

How would I tell if the pump seal is bad? The water got to the bearing some how. Who reduilds the pumps?

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Re: S1V1 Motor

Post by rhinoevans » Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:57 pm

Well not so fast. Big leak under the machine from the boiler. It was leaking from the steam pressure relief. So I took the top off the boiler to look inside and saw a 4 inch plastic tube laying in the bottom of the boiler. Is the very long metal probe supposed to be completely covered by a plastic tube. Only thing that the tube really fits. Still can't figure out this boiler overfill.cleaning out the boiler and the heating element. Should they be sand blasted?

Also called JC Beverage to have the pump rebuilt if I can determine it is leaking this weekend.

Is it possible the the fill sensor is bad? I guess no way to test except buy a new one.
Last edited by rhinoevans on Thu Jan 01, 2015 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

rhinoevans
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Re: S1V1 Motor

Post by rhinoevans » Thu Jan 01, 2015 5:22 pm

New Years Day, all panels off the S1 while i somewhat troubleshoot/tinker over the last few days. From the wife, Are you going to put that THING back together. It is obvious you dont know how to fix it!!! Probably some truth to that.

OK, figured out two things on my boiler overfill:
1. Water get to the boiler ONLY throught the Electronic solenoid valve
2. The amount of the water in the boiler is determined by the Fill probe on the top of the boiler.

When all is connected, and the boiler is totally empty, the pump kicks on and fill the boiler and then turns off (Normal). The heater does its thing and creates steam. SO i would think that the probe is working or else it would continue to run and not click off durning the fill process.

So now I focus on the solenoid, thinking that the valve is working normal when the boiler needs water and fills the boiler. Is it possible that the solenoid is not closing all the way because of some obstruction so i pulled the plug out of the solenoid that blocking water to the bolier to see if any water was flowing when closed. Not a drop. So much for that. So both things seem to be working, then why the overfill.


Ok, one last time to hook it all up and observe what is going on. BTW, took the boiler totally apart, and cleaned. Not that bad for 10-11 years. Found a small 4 inch plastic tube in the bottom. On thing it would have fit was the long portion of the fill probe. Not sure about that.
Turn S1 on, pump comes on and fills the boiler and then turns off as normal. I hear the heating element engage and start the heating process. start to create steam and i noticed that the fill probe is being PUSHED UP BY THE STEAM. I dont think i have ever tightened the nut thinking that was the way it was supposed to be. So i tightened the nut so the fill prob could not move or be pushed up by pressure. So far, good.
The last attempt a few days ago it acted normal when the boiler was on, but when i turned the boiler off, a few hours later i found water coming out the top of the boiler.
Not sure of two things> Even if the pressure pushed up the fill probe, with the top tray in place, I dont think the the prob could be pushed up high enough to create an incorrect volume to fill the boiler so it would overrun.
With the boiler off, no water should be going to the boiler through the solenoid.
Was going to order a new solenoid and new prob Monday. Been about an hour so far and no overfill. Maybe that was it.

Thanks for all your help

Edit: on second thought, I am sure I had the S1 tore apart so the fill probe could have risen as far as the water would have pushed it up. 3 hours and no overfill and just steamed my first coffe in years from the S1. Yummy

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Re: S1V1 Motor

Post by rhinoevans » Fri Jan 02, 2015 11:40 am

24 hours later and no overfill and a perfectly acting boiler. I can't believe that is was just not locking down the fill probe. Very inexpensive fix. My S1 seems just like the day I bought it 10 years ago. I might be one of the few with the old controller board and the old steam arm.

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gschroeder81
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Re: S1V1 Motor

Post by gschroeder81 » Fri May 01, 2015 12:45 pm

I also have a motor problem. I just bought this S1V1 a few days ago, not understanding that it apparently had been in storage for a significant period of time. It's going to need some serious help. Check out the motor after pulling the pump off. Yeah, this isn't cool.
2015-04-30 20.44.21.jpg
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Project S1V1
Isomac Rituale
Compak K3, Rocky, Hario
PID'd Poppery I roaster
3D printed Thermofilter
Ex machines: Nuova Simonelli Mac 2000 and Aurelia, Astoria, various consumers

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chas
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Re: S1V1 Motor

Post by chas » Fri May 01, 2015 2:31 pm

Yikes! Of course the only way for that to happen is for water to leak from the pump so you can expect the same issue there. If you search the forum you will see a number of folks that have had this happen and either fixed it themselves or took the pump and/or motor to a local machine shop to replace bearings and seals. This option is usually much cheaper than buying a new motor and pump if they are not too far gone.
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gschroeder81
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Re: S1V1 Motor

Post by gschroeder81 » Fri May 01, 2015 2:38 pm

Thanks for the info, I will see what I can do about locally sourcing parts before going out and purchasing new. I do have access to some tools and soon will have full access to a CNC mill. I will see if I can source the bearings, as I think the motor will be okay if I can free it up. The pump I suppose just needs new seals, but I will disassemble it to see what there is to see. I think that I will end up getting this machine for free, so I am still enthused about it, but if I hadn't worked on older commercial machines before now I would be a little overwhelmed. I love the wealth of information that is here on this site, and I hope to give back.
Project S1V1
Isomac Rituale
Compak K3, Rocky, Hario
PID'd Poppery I roaster
3D printed Thermofilter
Ex machines: Nuova Simonelli Mac 2000 and Aurelia, Astoria, various consumers

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chas
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Re: S1V1 Motor

Post by chas » Fri May 01, 2015 2:44 pm

You might be interested in these threads if you haven't already found them:

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=1290&p=21230&hilit=johnb#p21230
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=986#p11566
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gschroeder81
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Re: S1V1 Motor

Post by gschroeder81 » Fri May 01, 2015 3:24 pm

Chas, these links are so very helpful. Really comforting to see that I am not looking at something totally whacked out here. I think I shall be able to fix this in a bit. I suppose the seals for the pump will have to come from CC or are those common bearings/seals? One of the links mentions the item SKF 6202-2Z. I think this is for the motor. Any suggestions on what I should figure on replacing on the pump itself, seeing as it clearly leaked into the motor?
Thanks,
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Re: S1V1 Motor

Post by MDL » Fri May 01, 2015 3:39 pm

I bought my replacement pump directly from Fluidotech in CT. They should also be a source for pump parts, although I have not asked them about parts.
161 Atwater St
Plantsville, CT 06479
Phone 860-276-9270
Fax 860-620-0193
Initial inquiries email:
info@fluid-o-tech.com

I also see that they now have an office in Concord, CA (but listed as gear pumps):
5063 Commercial Circle
Suite E
Concord, California USA
Fax 925-691-9259

I dealt with the CT office and was very pleased with the telephone support and the speed of their handling my order.

rhinoevans
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Re: S1V1 Motor

Post by rhinoevans » Fri May 01, 2015 8:10 pm

Here is some information on a company that will rebuild.
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gschroeder81
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Re: S1V1 Motor

Post by gschroeder81 » Tue May 05, 2015 11:48 am

@rinoevans,
I contacted JC Beverage and found them very prompt and friendly. I sent my pump off to them yesterday. Thanks for the referral!

I did replace the front bearing in the motor, with a matching bearing I found at Tractor Supply. There is some vibration, when holding the motor in my hand and turning it on. Like more than I would have expected, but not a crazy amount. I wonder if this is normal, or if it should run completely smooth, with hardly any noticeable vibration? I doubt the bearing is high quality, but I really thought that it would be sufficient. There is the tiniest amount of play in the bearing itself, and I didn't feel that in the original rear bearing. I am wondering now if it would be a good investment to buy a high quality bearing and put that in the front to see if it makes any difference.
Project S1V1
Isomac Rituale
Compak K3, Rocky, Hario
PID'd Poppery I roaster
3D printed Thermofilter
Ex machines: Nuova Simonelli Mac 2000 and Aurelia, Astoria, various consumers

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gschroeder81
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Re: S1V1 Motor

Post by gschroeder81 » Wed May 20, 2015 3:13 pm

I did buy a high quality bearing for the motor from CNC Specialty Store http://cnc-specialty-store.com and they have been the greatest in response and service. They sent the wrong bearing the first time around but within minutes of emailing them they got back and told me they would send the correct one out right away. They carry nice Japanese bearings.

Got the pump back from JC Beverage Company and they are every bit as nice and helpful as I was told. They repaired it quickly and sent it back out before contacting me for payment. I would highly recommend them to anybody. The pump looks great and works perfectly.
Project S1V1
Isomac Rituale
Compak K3, Rocky, Hario
PID'd Poppery I roaster
3D printed Thermofilter
Ex machines: Nuova Simonelli Mac 2000 and Aurelia, Astoria, various consumers

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chas
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Re: S1V1 Motor

Post by chas » Wed May 20, 2015 3:28 pm

Out of curiosity, did you buy the bearing for the motor because you felt that you could do that repair yourself or would JCB not also do that repair?

I am also wondering if you did that mod that JohnB noted in the several year old thread where he drilled out the drain hole to a slightly larger size at the front of the motor and then put a coating of food grade silicone lube on the front of the motor around the shaft to reduce the chance of the next pump leakage taking out the motor again?

Most of the previous owners that needed to have the pump or motor overhauled were able to find a local machine shop to do the work for about the same price. It no doubt depends on where you live in order to have this option.
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gschroeder81
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Re: S1V1 Motor

Post by gschroeder81 » Wed May 20, 2015 3:39 pm

I bought the bearing because it is relatively easy to change out with basic tools. I did make some mistakes when cracking the motor apart, and learned I had been going about it entirely the wrong way. But I am cheap that way, I will fix it myself if it seems like it is worth the effort. It is definitely not a difficult repair, but some foreknowledge would have been nice when taking the motor apart, to know which side of the casing moved and how it did so.

My mistake was assuming the front of the motor came off of the stator instead of the rear, and I ended up tapping the shaft and physically moving the rotor on the shaft. I was able to tap it back and all works correctly now. Just scared me out when I saw what I had done.

I did do the mod where I drilled out the hole in the casing. That is cheap insurance. I did use some white lithium grease when installing the new bearing, but not specifically to shield the bearing from water. I am looking into using a "sealed" bearing for that though. I bought the wrong bearing the first time around. I ordered the wrong one and they sent yet a different one. Still getting it figured out here today. I have it together at the moment using the cheap bearing from Tractor Supply.
Project S1V1
Isomac Rituale
Compak K3, Rocky, Hario
PID'd Poppery I roaster
3D printed Thermofilter
Ex machines: Nuova Simonelli Mac 2000 and Aurelia, Astoria, various consumers

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Re: S1V1 Motor

Post by MDL » Wed May 20, 2015 3:48 pm

When you have things finished it would be great if you posted a "How To" file for others. This issue does come up periodically.

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Re: S1V1 Motor

Post by gschroeder81 » Wed May 20, 2015 3:51 pm

Sure, I don't mind doing that. I will be taking this motor apart and plan to take pictures of the process for others benefit.
Project S1V1
Isomac Rituale
Compak K3, Rocky, Hario
PID'd Poppery I roaster
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Ex machines: Nuova Simonelli Mac 2000 and Aurelia, Astoria, various consumers

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Re: S1V1 Motor

Post by gschroeder81 » Wed May 20, 2015 4:45 pm

I ordered this beauty.
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Project S1V1
Isomac Rituale
Compak K3, Rocky, Hario
PID'd Poppery I roaster
3D printed Thermofilter
Ex machines: Nuova Simonelli Mac 2000 and Aurelia, Astoria, various consumers

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Re: S1V1 Motor

Post by gschroeder81 » Tue May 26, 2015 3:51 pm

Okay, here is the breakdown sequence for replacing the motor bearing. Numerous of you have already done this and so you may have a better method for several of these steps, but here is how I did it. This is to replace a rusted or otherwise ruined bearing in the motor of the S1 usually resulting from a leaking pump.
Image



First remove power from the machine. Then take the inlet and outlet fittings off of the pump. Then remove the pump/motor from the machine by unscrewing the four small nuts located on the bottom of the machine. You can lay the machine on its side for this.

Then remove the pump by taking the philips screw out of the retainer ring and removing the ring or opening it wide enough to slide onto the pump only.
Also remove the solenoid/capacitor or whatever that is on top of the motor.
Image
Image



Then remove the nuts and long bolts holding the motor casing together.
Image



The motor is ready to come apart, but it is not very willing to do so. The rear part of the casing slides off of the stator, and the stator remains fixed in the front motor casing. I was able to get it started separating by tapping with light glancing blows on rear motor casing with a rubber mallet, just to create a little crack where I could fit a chisel between the two halves. The rest is a slow process of using flat screw drivers and prying as evenly as possible to slide the rear casing off the rear of the stator. Here I'm sure there is a better way to do this, but I have limited tools.
Image



Be sure to feed the wires going to the stator through the hole as you remove the casing, so as not to induce stress to the solder joints inside the motor.

Victory!
Image



Now the motor shaft should just pull out. If it doesn't tap on the end of the shaft at the front of the motor with a rubber mallet and be very gentle. I was not careful when I did that that first time and ended up shifting the aluminum cylinder on the motor shaft. Not cool. I was able to tap it back into place. But this will only happen if you hammer really hard on the shaft.
Image


Here is the shaft.
Image


Next it was a chore to remove the bearing from the shaft. This is not the recommend way. But I was not going to quit and didn't have the proper tool to remove the bearing and chase so I used a gear puller with a piece of metal protecting the shaft itself from deformation. Again, this is not easy or recommended, but how I achieved it.
Image
Image



Next you have to remove the bearing chase from the old bearing. I used a vice, placing the jaws just ouside the race, and tapping on it with a socket that just contacted the inner race and slid through the bearing itself.
Image
Image



Next you need to insert the inner bearing race into the new bearing. I purchased a sealed bearing, for extra insurance in the even that I ever get water in there again. I used some white lithium grease but it still needed some gentle persuasion. Just be careful not to harm the bearing in any way.
Image
Image



Then the bearing/race is ready to go back on the shaft. Here again it took some gentle persuasion. I used some more grease, and a socket that just fit over the shaft while contacting the inner race, so as not to place lateral force on the bearing parts itself.
Image
Image



I added some grease to the outer race so the bearing will slide into its place easier. Now the shaft is ready to reinstall.
Image



Now is a good time to enlarge the hole that exists on the bottom side of the exit shaft housing. I used a 1/4" bit and drilled this out. This helps water escape in the even that the pump starts leaking again. The original hole was small and in my case, almost completely filled up with scale. This is not my idea, but I read it here on the forums posted by JohnB. Also you will want to clean the remaining buildup and crud at this point. This picture is not taken in chronological order, but I forgot to get one when it was apart.
Image



The shaft can go back into the front part of the motor housing. Before you put the rear part together however, make sure that you put the wavy spring and washer in the rear housing. You have to make sure as well that it stays put while you start putting the motor together.
Image
Image



Then the housing gets reinstalled. I had to use the rubber mallet to gently tap the halves together. Just take your time and make sure nothing is binding and the motor shaft is finding the bearing locations correctly. Then fasten the motor together with the long bolts and retrace your steps to mount the pump. Make sure that the little brass part that meshes the two shafts together is not forgotten, and that the shafts are oriented correctly so that they go together.
Image



Next you are ready to mount the capacitor, motor mount, and replace the assembly in the machine.
Image



Good luck. Take your time and it should come together. Also encouraging anyone else to weigh in here if there are easier ways to accomplish any of these steps. But I think this covers the basic idea of what you are wanting to accomplish. So far mine is working flawlessly, with added peace of mind using the larger weep hole and sealed bearing.
Last edited by gschroeder81 on Mon Jan 11, 2016 1:55 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Project S1V1
Isomac Rituale
Compak K3, Rocky, Hario
PID'd Poppery I roaster
3D printed Thermofilter
Ex machines: Nuova Simonelli Mac 2000 and Aurelia, Astoria, various consumers

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chas
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Re: S1V1 Motor

Post by chas » Wed May 27, 2015 8:20 am

Excellent. Thanks. :notworthy:
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Re: S1V1 Motor

Post by mkc » Mon Jan 11, 2016 12:41 pm

gschroeder81 wrote: First remove power from the machine. Then take the inlet and outlet fittings off of the pump. Then remove the pump/motor from the machine by unscrewing the four small nuts located on the bottom of the machine. You can lay the machine on its side for this.
gschroeder81,

Is there any chance you still have the photos linked in this post? Only the first one is showing up for me and I get a "404 Link Not Found" error from Dropbox when I try to access them directly.

I'm preparing to tear into my S1Vi for the first time and in case I find a pump leak/impact to motor bearing I am researching all that I can on the forum here.

Many thanks,

Michelle

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Re: S1V1 Motor

Post by gschroeder81 » Mon Jan 11, 2016 1:44 pm

mkc,
I apologize, I had moved the pictures, and broke all the links. They should be back up again. Good luck!
Project S1V1
Isomac Rituale
Compak K3, Rocky, Hario
PID'd Poppery I roaster
3D printed Thermofilter
Ex machines: Nuova Simonelli Mac 2000 and Aurelia, Astoria, various consumers

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Re: S1V1 Motor

Post by mkc » Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:31 pm

gschroeder81 wrote:mkc,
I apologize, I had moved the pictures, and broke all the links. They should be back up again. Good luck!
They are - thank you so much!

Michelle

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Re: S1V1 Motor

Post by jbb » Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:54 pm

Hello everybody. I'd like advice on diagnosing a pump/motor issue on an S1.

The machine is from 2003-2004. I bought it used in 2012 or so and its been a workhorse. The symptoms for the problem I'm having are similar to what I've had in the past when the pump has gone out (I've changed the pump twice since I had the machine, and have drilled out the drain hole beneath the pump housing as many others have done). Machine turns on, no flashing light alerts. Machine starts to heat both brew and steam boiler. If activate either one or two cup buttons I can hear the solenoid or whatever the electronics are opening the valve for the brew boiler. Water comes out the group head at street pressure. So in the past that's been symptomatic of a pump problem for me.

However, when I pulled off the pump the vanes turn easily. If I activate the brew buttons with the pump removed from the motor, I do not see the motor shaft turning. If I try to turn the shaft manually, I can't (although I don't know if the motor would prevent this). So, my question is-how to diagnose the problem further. Seems like the bearings could have seized up like for others in this thread. Or the motor itself has gone bad. Or the capacitor could also have failed.

Thanks for any advice.

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Re: S1V1 Motor

Post by jbb » Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:02 pm

I should probably add that its not like the motor appears to be trying to turn the shaft. There's not that nasty noise. The motor does not appear to do anything-vibrate, hum. it just looks, well, dead.

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Re: S1V1 Motor

Post by jbb » Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:06 pm

The other thing maybe to add is that the last time I changed the pump I made sure to pack the interface between the pump and motor with silicon plumber's grease. That was several years ago at this point. When I pulled the pump off it was very clean in there. No corrosion, gunk, etc. So in addition to drilling out the drain hole that seems to be worth doing.

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Re: S1V1 Motor

Post by gschroeder81 » Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:12 pm

Is the pump getting power to it when you hit the brew buttons?
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Re: S1V1 Motor

Post by jbb » Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:27 pm

well, the motor is not turning the pump. there is no rotation of the motor shaft at all as far as I can tell by activating the motor once the pump is removed. whether current is getting to the motor, or whether the problem is internal to the motor is I guess partly what I'm trying to figure out.

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Re: S1V1 Motor

Post by gschroeder81 » Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:29 pm

Sorry, that's what I meant to ask, is if there is power getting to the "motor" when the brew button is pressed. That's the first thing I would check, before splitting the motor.
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Re: S1V1 Motor

Post by jbb » Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:14 pm

gschroeder81 wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:29 pm
Sorry, that's what I meant to ask, is if there is power getting to the "motor" when the brew button is pressed. That's the first thing I would check, before splitting the motor.
Thanks. From pulling your motor out, do you have a feel for where to touch a voltmeter to see if there is current getting in? You must have disconnected the motor from the power supply at some point, but I didn't see a picture of that part in your sequence. In this view from the back (pulled off the web-the inside of my machine does not look quite so clean and shiny anymore) I can see two black wires going in and the capacitor sitting on top. Thanks.
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Re: S1V1 Motor

Post by gschroeder81 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:23 pm

Yours is a little different than mine, but the input would be the black wire coming in lower. That wire probably splits out, with one wire going to the ground lug (the stack of nuts and green and yellow wires) in the rear right of the machine (to the left in your picture) and then there will be one or two more wires (split out of that same black sheath) which will be the one or ones feeding power to the motor when the "brew" button is pressed. Try to check for voltage differential between the ground lug and the "power" wire or wires when you press the brew button. I hope this makes sense...
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Isomac Rituale
Compak K3, Rocky, Hario
PID'd Poppery I roaster
3D printed Thermofilter
Ex machines: Nuova Simonelli Mac 2000 and Aurelia, Astoria, various consumers

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Re: S1V1 Motor

Post by gschroeder81 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:25 pm

Sometimes if you can't get to any metal contact point for a power wire (which may be the case here), you can pierce the wire coating with the sharp end of a multimeter probe. ( I can't really recommend this, but I have done it when needed )
Project S1V1
Isomac Rituale
Compak K3, Rocky, Hario
PID'd Poppery I roaster
3D printed Thermofilter
Ex machines: Nuova Simonelli Mac 2000 and Aurelia, Astoria, various consumers

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Re: S1V1 Motor

Post by jbb » Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:53 pm

gschroeder81 wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:23 pm
Yours is a little different than mine, but the input would be the black wire coming in lower. That wire probably splits out, with one wire going to the ground lug (the stack of nuts and green and yellow wires) in the rear right of the machine (to the left in your picture) and then there will be one or two more wires (split out of that same black sheath) which will be the one or ones feeding power to the motor when the "brew" button is pressed. Try to check for voltage differential between the ground lug and the "power" wire or wires when you press the brew button. I hope this makes sense...
Yes thank you. That makes sense. I was not sure how to tell which wire was which going into it. And I didn't want to risk shorting something. When I get a chance to pop the back off I will check it out. Probably after Tgiving unless I get some time tonight. Especially around the boilers the insulation around the wiring in this machine is getting pretty oxidized and brittle. Anymore I have to move things around pretty carefully when I'm in there. Any sense on what a normal lifespan for a machine like this should be with reasonable maintenance (annual cleaning, descale, etc) and moderate use (about 6 shots a day, machine on maybe 4-6 hrs day). The build quality seems good but, unfortunately, time and wear and tear always take their toll.

Your 3D printer thermofilter sounds like a fun gadget. Is this basically like a Scace device for temp profiling at the group head?

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Re: S1V1 Motor

Post by chas » Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:18 pm

Depending on what's wrong with it, you might look for a local electric motor repair shop and get an estimate assuming it's otherwise in reasonable physical condition. A new one - including capacitor - runs $169 w/ free shipping from Chris Coffee.
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Re: S1V1 Motor

Post by jbb » Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:38 pm

chas wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:18 pm
Depending on what's wrong with it, you might look for a local electric motor repair shop and get an estimate assuming it's otherwise in reasonable physical condition. A new one - including capacitor - runs $169 w/ free shipping from Chris Coffee.
Thanks Chas. I thought I'd probably just go ahead and purchase a new motor from Chris if it was getting power. For the money it is a comparatively hassle free option. It looks like this is the one:

https://www.chriscoffee.com/110-Volt-Mo ... p/pm84.htm

What I don't know is how to uncouple the terminals from the old motor since they seem to disappear inside the motor housing. I suppose if I could do that checking the power in via a volt meter would be easy. And then I'd need to reconnect to the new motor assuming power is good. I didn't pull up a preexisting thread by searching the site for how to disconnect the terminals which is partly why I posted. Do you need to open up the motor to do it?

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Re: S1V1 Motor

Post by jbb » Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:49 pm

actually, it must be possible to disconnect the terminals without splitting the motor because in gschroeder's images in this thread the motor is clearly disconnected from the power supply before it gets cracked open. But I'm guessing the terminals are not a simple spade push/pull thing.

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Re: S1V1 Motor

Post by gschroeder81 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:35 pm

I don't recall, but I would suspect that the power input to the pump comes from the controller/computer box, which has a bunch of blade connectors on it. Don't take my word for it, as my memory of it is foggy.
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Re: S1V1 Motor

Post by jbb » Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:43 pm

So back to the dead motor issue. I'll post some pictures in case they might be of use to somebody down the line. First, here she is with the back taken off. There's something a bit indelicate about posting stripped down pictures of an older machine like this. But those with an affinity for these machines will still appreciate what's on the inside. In the 4-5 yrs I've had her a quick back of the envelope suggests I've pulled at least 7500 shots through her. And who knows how many before I picked up the machine. Time goes by. Doff of the hat, Signora Spaziale.

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Re: S1V1 Motor

Post by jbb » Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:56 pm

The lower blue/brown/ground wires are coming into the motor from the terminal box. The upper blue/brown are from the capacitor. S1V1.

PB241391.jpg
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The wiring runs straight into the guts of the motor without a visible disconnect. I suppose that is what one would expect.

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Re: S1V1 Motor

Post by jbb » Sat Nov 25, 2017 12:01 am

Here is the terminal box. The blue (neutral) wire out to the motor is attached to the sixth connect from the top. The brown (line) wire out is attached to the fifth connect from the top. Green/yellow to ground post visible at bottom left in PB241395.jpg

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Re: S1V1 Motor

Post by jbb » Sat Nov 25, 2017 12:16 am

My testing for current to the motor. Voltmeter from line terminal connection to ground post = 110 V even without activating brew switch. Voltmeter from neutral terminal connection to line terminal connection = 110 V even without activating brew switch. Voltmeter from neutral terminal connection to ground post = 0 V without activating brew switch. Voltmeter probe harpooned though line insulation where indicated in diagram. Other probe on ground post = 0 V without activating brew switch, 110 V when brew switch activated. So based on that, I'd say unless anybody advises otherwise switching to motor is still good. Chris Coffee web site for the motor indicates "wire terminal ends vary and need to be changed". So I assume the new motor comes with wiring attached, but probably just snipped off at the end. I can check with Chris on that. And what I'll need to do on my end is snip off the old terminal wiring close to the motor and either solder or devise some sort of crimp connector to join them together. Does anybody have any experience with what might work best for joining the wiring up? Thanks.

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Re: S1V1 Motor

Post by jbb » Sat Nov 25, 2017 5:07 pm

A few pictures after pulling to motor. The bracket is in bad shape. The screw holding one of the rubber supports on the bottom has corroded. But the inside of the motor itself looks fine, at least from what I can see on the outside.

PB251398.JPG
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In this version of the S1, the switches connected to the board are only protected by a plastic screen which does not go all the way down to the bottom of the machine. With the motor out here is a picture of the bottom of the board and terminals that is not protected. The shot discharge tube is just on the other side. A bit gunky in there.

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Re: S1V1 Motor

Post by jbb » Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:49 pm

Call me desperate, but....I took a big flat head, stuck it in the motor shaft and twisted it as hard as I could. At first no movement and then after a moment, pop, and then the shaft turned freely. Brew switch activated motor just fine and shaft turned with no apparent problem. Reassembled, plumbed in, and all functions driven off of pump/motor seem operational. The motor sounds maybe a little bit different, but it is subtle.

Any idea what could cause this type of resistance? Doesn't seem consistent with bearings going out....I guess.

But for the moment should be able to pull shots in the morning. Ohhh that will be nice.

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Re: S1V1 Motor

Post by chas » Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:03 am

Given the mineral deposits on the bottom side of the motor and on the motor mounts, I suspect some moisture got inside the motor, minerals deposited and froze the bearings. If so the motor will probably fail again at some point.

If you do decide to replace the motor in the future and don't also replace the motor mounting plate, you should at least buy a new set of motor mounts from Chris Coffee. I suspect the rubber on the current ones has gotten hard and brittle. A new set will really quiet things down.

https://www.chriscoffee.com/Vivaldi-Mot ... 27&yes=yes
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