Ceado E7

Discussion of coffee grinder hardware. How to get the most out of specific grinders. Cleaning and maintenance issues with grinders. Comparison of different grinders.
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Abnuceals

Ceado E7

Post by Abnuceals »

Hi, I'm in the process to buy a quality grinder. I have never been completely satisfied with the Vario's performance and experienced some variations in the quality of my shots since I changed the belt and he pulley. Each time I use a different blend of beans, I have to change the setting and it's never "easy". I do not say it is a bad grinder but it is not exactly what I was expecting when I bought it with the S1. So, I decided to keep it for the decaf and I'm confident it will be okay if it stays always with the same setting.
The grinders I was looking at for my regular espresso are the Mazzer SJ, the Compak K-6 Platinum (professional Barista) and the Ceado E7. The first one do not needs to be introduced; the K-6 is not the star of the Compak family but Mark Prince said very nice things about it http://www.coffeegeek.com/guides/howtob ... etagrinder and the third one seems to be a well kept secret and hopefully, Idrinkcoffee provide it, so it is possible to buy it in Canada. Here's a short review on Home-Barista.com http://www.home-barista.com/reviews/cea ... 16311.html
My first intention was to buy a doserless but the difference in price (look at the Mazzer SJ E) is unjustifiable. I think those three models can be easily used for single dosing as I do with the Vario (I weigh my doses).
Anybody have an opinion about the K-6 or the E7 ?
I will probably buy a new grinder since the market of used grinders is not huge, this side of the border.
Endo

Re: Ceado E7

Post by Endo »

I went the same route as you as few years ago.

As you say, there are no used Mazzers in Canada, so I had to buy new. I got a Mazzer SJ from the Greanbeanery for $750 (it now sells for a little under $1000). As you say, the best deals today seem to be at Idrinkcoffee....and actually the Mazzer eSJ is a STEAL at $1199 (better than anywhere in North America).

That said....$1200 is still a LOT of money. The regular SJ is also a good deal at $849 at Idrinkcoffee. You can buy it for $695 at CC, but the shipping , duty, tax and brokerage fees will add up to about $200, so it ends up being cheaper buying in Canada.

Of course the best deals for a Mazzer SJ are on E-bay. You see them for sale every couple of weeks and a decent one will go for around $350 (a Major for $500). You can add a $50 Gralab 450 timer from E-bay and you'll have a eSJ for $400. But E-bay is always a gamble,and I understand if you don' want to take the risk.

So if you are determined to buy new, I say narrow it down to either the SJ or Ceado. (I ruled out the K6 since I just don't like this Compak's cheap feel and I don't feel it's in the same league). The Ceado is better than the SJ. The quiet, powerful motor, clean doser and easy grinds adjustment have all been improved over the SJ, otherwise it is the same machine. You pay an extra $150, so it's up to you to decide if the improvements add up to $150.
Abnuceals

Re: Ceado E7

Post by Abnuceals »

Endo, interesting what you have to say about Compak products. I don't know if it's a general opinion... But you have a real goood point about the Ceado, it's an improved version of the SJ and a $150 difference is not huge considering what it has to offer. By the way, it is covered by a three-year long waranty. Something rare in the coffee industry.

About the Mazzer SJ E at $1199... I know it's a terrific bargain considering the price elsewhere. It is still $350 more than a doser SJ but you have to consider that a doserless SJ is more than a SJ with a funnel. It is all electronic. So, I'm still open to that option but I'm afraid it could be the highway to the doghouse for me. But a positive point with the SJ, I could add a short beans hopper. I never saw one for the Ceado... Did you see how big is its hopper ? Monstrous !
Endo

Re: Ceado E7

Post by Endo »

I have nothing bad to say about Compak grinders in general, they have many fans and the big grinders like the K-30 seem very solid indeed. I just didn't like the design and feel of their sub $1000 grinders (very personal opinion of course). The K8 and K10 Fresh seem awesome and I have strongly considered getting one, but they are just a bit too new (and expensive) for me right now. I think the K6 is still a great choice for a 64mm burr grinder, but little things like the plastic grind chute, plastic cap, cast aluminum doser and lower wattage motor turned me off. No real good reason to dislike it though, so if you like it then go for it, since it's the lowest price of the bunch.

While I never tried the Ceado, The WholeLatteLove video provides a LOT of detailed information and it seems they improved on almost every single one of the weak points on the SJ (noise, vibration, left dosing throw, spring, adjustment thread exposure to grounds, etc).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3_wYXzXF-w

I'm not sure about the smaller hopper for the Ceado, but perhaps the small Mazzer hopper would still fit? If it is smaller, you could just use a shim. Another option is to buy another large hopper and cut it down. Of course the easiest is simpy to remove the hoper all together. Most people use it this way anyway for single dosing....and it might appear less intimidating to the wife as well.

At first thought, I would say Mazzer resale might be better as well (since it is better known), but the large volume of available Mazzers seems to have pushed down their resale to 50% of list price, so I don't think the resale price on the Ceado would be much lower than that.
oton

Re: Ceado E7

Post by oton »

Abnuceals wrote:Each time I use a different blend of beans, I have to change the setting and it's never "easy".
I don't understand whats the problem ??

I found the Vario very convenient for use different beans often. Very little waste, so the adjustments are quick and cheap to do.
expy98

Re: Ceado E7

Post by expy98 »

I'm assuming you've ruled out the OE Pharos?

just one measly data point but once I got the Pharos, I never used the SJ (doserless mod) again for months and
finally sold it recently. For me, the pros outweighed the cons of the Pharos; couldn't say the same for the SJ so it went.
Abnuceals

Re: Ceado E7

Post by Abnuceals »

Oton, maybe it's my Vario but if it is settled for the morning's coffee, I will have to change the adjustement for the evening coffee (decaf). That's normal. But the morning after, when I come back to the morning espresso, I'm never sure if the previous setting I had the morning before will still be OK. Often it ends in the sink and after a couple of try, the adjustement is correct. But I don't like to throw coffee because of an inconsistent grinder.

If I keep the Vario for the decaf only, I can presume it will keep the adjustement a little bit longer. I can live with that.
You're right with the fact there is very little waste with the Vario and I should expect more waste with some doser machines.

About the Pharos... It's a nice looking machine but after reading all the saga of JohnB, it removes any desire I could have to own one.

Honestly, the more I read, the more I am interested in the Ceado. Finally, Endo summarises the situation, saying it's an improvement over the SJ and a machine that will not loose so many of its value.
expy98

Re: Ceado E7

Post by expy98 »

It looks like JohnB gave up on the Pharos before modding it to not slip?

I had the same problem initially as well (and hated it) but once I added a couple of jam nuts (and now using the OE double thumb nuts),
all is well as long as you don't mind the manual grinding. I prefer the manual grinding/spanking over the pulsing and brushing.
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GDK
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Posts: 166
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Location: Ottawa, Canada

Re: Ceado E7

Post by GDK »

Abnuceals wrote:... But the morning after, when I come back to the morning espresso, I'm never sure if the previous setting I had the morning before will still be OK. Often it ends in the sink and after a couple of try, the adjustement is correct. But I don't like to throw coffee because of an inconsistent grinder.
Give the Vario one more shot before spending extra bucks by doing the following (sorry if you have been doing it already):

* always change grind settings while grinder is running - this can avoid stickiness biased to previous setting, likely your experience
* give the burrs a good clean (remove the lower burr too), especially if you have not done it before
* as you move to a new setting move the lever past the target setting by 2-3 notches then return back to target. This can eliminate stickiness too.

Hope it helps.
Endo

Re: Ceado E7

Post by Endo »

I've given up on my Vario for the same reason. It sticks. I waste WAY to much premium coffee trying to get back to my original settings. I cleaned it all out seveal times and did the little lever excercise thing, but no difference. I'm told it may be the bushing alignment. I'm patiently waiting for a refurbished unit that will supposedly fix it. That was several weeks ago though. Hmmm. Time to check on them.

That's why I love the Mazzer....it always works.
Abnuceals

Re: Ceado E7

Post by Abnuceals »

Hi GDK,
No offense with your suggestions. But I already tried all this with no significant results. It all began when I changed belt and pulley. The grinder is no more the same. Sad. :-(
Anyway I won't get rid of the Vario. I will confine it to a specific task.
And a new grinder will be like a new treat, not a punishment. Hey, this is a hobby, not a question of life and death.
Endo

Re: Ceado E7

Post by Endo »

Abnuceals wrote:....And a new grinder will be like a new treat, not a punishment. Hey, this is a hobby, not a question of life and death.
If you're willing to spend $1000 on a grinder, I would expect at least some improvement in taste to justify the cost. It's your money always, but just keep in mind all 3 of the 64mm burr grinders you described will not provide any significant improvement in taste over the Vario. In other words, you'll be spending $1000 simply for the following reason:

1- It's more durable (less likely to leave you stranded without a grinder).
2- It's 30% faster.
3- for the convenience of having 2 grinders (bean choice in the morning)
4- It looks nice on the counter and you like shiny espresso gear (the "hobby" effect you described).

This was worth $500 to me (which is why I bought the Vario after I already had a SJ). But is it worth $1000? Most people would probably say no....but it's only you that matters here.

Still, I strongly feel that if I had $1000 burning a hole in my pockets for a new grinder, I would definitely get something that actually made a difference in the cup. (Like the MXK conical for $849 at 1st line). Or even stretch it out another $300 to get into the range of the 83mm grinders (Ceado E10, Mazzer Major) or conicals (like K-10 WBC).

Of course, it's your money, and if you are a hobbiest, this may very likely be your "long term plan" after the E7. :lol:
JohnB

Re: Ceado E7

Post by JohnB »

expy98 wrote:It looks like JohnB gave up on the Pharos before modding it to not slip?

I had the same problem initially as well (and hated it) but once I added a couple of jam nuts (and now using the OE double thumb nuts),
all is well as long as you don't mind the manual grinding. I prefer the manual grinding/spanking over the pulsing and brushing.
Actually I returned mine when OE was still in denial & I was the only owner who had ever mentioned the problem to them. When I told them that it was impossible to grind fine enough for espresso I was told that they were sorry it didn't work out for me & that I could return it. About the time my Pharos returned to Idaho the proverbial s--t had hit the fan & they were no longer denying the issue. Personally I have no regrets about returning it, in fact every time I read a new post in the owners thread detailing some Rube Goldberg fix for one of the many issues I am damn glad it is gone.

If I were spending $1000 or more on a grinder the Compak K10 Pro Barista would be the only grinder I would consider. No quality issues whatsoever & it is a HUGE step up from an SJ.
oton

Re: Ceado E7

Post by oton »

Come on abnuceals, get a Versalab. Complete pack at only $2253 :grin:

(I'm seriously considering it :oops:)
JohnB

Re: Ceado E7

Post by JohnB »

oton wrote:Come on abnuceals, get a Versalab. Complete pack at only $2253 :grin:

(I'm seriously considering it :oops:)
Having to replace the burrs after a year of home use on a $2000 grinder most seem more appealing to you then it does to me. I can't get over the fact that they cheaped out & used crap burrs in what otherwise seems like an interesting machine.
oton

Re: Ceado E7

Post by oton »

Ascaso burrs seems an easy fix. $20 bucks per year, isn't the end of the world. :smile:
Endo

Re: Ceado E7

Post by Endo »

JohnB wrote: If I were spending $1000 or more on a grinder the Compak K10 Pro Barista would be the only grinder I would consider. No quality issues whatsoever & it is a HUGE step up from an SJ.
K10 would probably be my first choice if I wanted a conical (K10 Fresh is super nice). But let's be honest, NOTHING is a huge step up from an SJ....just different.
JohnB

Re: Ceado E7

Post by JohnB »

Endo wrote:
JohnB wrote: If I were spending $1000 or more on a grinder the Compak K10 Pro Barista would be the only grinder I would consider. No quality issues whatsoever & it is a HUGE step up from an SJ.
K10 would probably be my first choice if I wanted a conical (K10 Fresh is super nice). But let's be honest, NOTHING is a huge step up from an SJ....just different.
I'm not just talking about taste when I say it is a huge step up. The K10 is so much more forgiving of grind adjustment, produces a big, fluffy grind & is just so-o-o-o much more enjoyable to use on a daily basis. The K10 P/B will spoil you in a matter of days & your SJ will end up sitting on a shelf like mine.
JohnB

Re: Ceado E7

Post by JohnB »

oton wrote:Ascaso burrs seems an easy fix. $20 bucks per year, isn't the end of the world. :smile:
A $40 pair of Mazzer burrs would last a lifetime. Any burr set that is worn in a year is junk.
Endo

Re: Ceado E7

Post by Endo »

JohnB wrote:I'm not just talking about taste when I say it is a huge step up. The K10 is so much more forgiving of grind adjustment, produces a big, fluffy grind & is just so-o-o-o much more enjoyable to use on a daily basis. The K10 P/B will spoil you in a matter of days & your SJ will end up sitting on a shelf like mine.
I've been considering selling both my SJ and Vario and getting the K10. Reviews seem good but there are a few complaints of grounds retention and heat that have me concerned (like this review from David Schomer):

http://espressovivace.com/schomerblog/i ... c-grinder/

I've also been considering the new K8 Fresh. It's going for $1399 at Zcafe. The bells and whistles are attracting me.
JohnB

Re: Ceado E7

Post by JohnB »

Schomer posted that back when the K10 first came out & it scared off a few folks. Too bad as he is full of crap as far as his retention claims go. My guess is that he didn't actually weigh the grounds & went by what they looked like. As I said the K10 produces big, fluffy grounds so what looks like a lot really doesn't weigh much. I brought my K10 over to a friends house last year to compare with his K30 Vario. The 14g dose he was grinding with his K30 would not even fit in his Cremina basket when ground with the K10. I did a number of thorough retention tests when I first bought the K10 & posted my info on H-B along with my mods. Several of the regulars who had been mindlessly repeating Schomer's retention claims without ever using the K10 quickly shut up. At least one of them sold his Robur & now owns a K10 WBC. As for the heat it might be a factor in a cafe if the grinder was being used constantly, no idea. I can tell you that it definitely does not get hot or even warm in normal home use. Remember that the K10 grinds at 350 rpm which I consider a plus but the slower speed "might" be an issue in a cafe. Consider what Schomer uses for grinders. He is constantly trying to mod his DRMs to make them competitive with what is currently readily available. His latest "invention" is the wire grid that has been standard on Mazzer doserless grinders for how long?? Also consider what he serves for espresso. You don't need a Titan conical to bring out the flavors in his Dolce blend.

The fact is that the stock chute, when packed full, only holds a little over 4 grams. The burr chamber holds another 6 tops with an unmodded chute when grinding with beans in the hopper. So if you left the chute stock & swept it as part of your dosing procedure the most you would have to purge before your next session is 6 grams. If you modify the chute as I detailed on H-B the grounds flow out quicker & do not pack up so tightly so you not only get much better sweeping access to the chute & the burr chamber but there will be less retention in the burr chamber.

This is all moot if you are single dosing which is where the K10 P/B really excels. Retention between shots is down to .2g or less & about 1g from the first shot, .5g from the second after completely vacuuming the Klingons from inside the burr chamber which I do every 7-10 days. With the chute modded you can easily sweep out the chute & the burr chamber sections with only a couple pulses required. Add the sticky back velcro mod to the lower sweeping vanes cover, swap the nylon washer position under the upper sweeper & the slick WBC/Pro Barista doser sweeps itself clean. The WBC/PB doser is much more refined then any of the Mazzer dosers I've used. No need to release the handle when clearing the doser as the ratchet will engage so no clacking. With the annoying roll pin stop removed from under the top cover you can screw off the top cover/upper burr carrier assy. together, sweep & vacuum out the burr chamber & reassemble in under two minutes.
Abnuceals

Re: Ceado E7

Post by Abnuceals »

Sorry if I have been so long to answer, just an (hopefully solved) internet problem, since Friday...

Endo, you seem to think I should stay with the Vario because there will be no improvement with any of the three grinders I am looking for.
just keep in mind all 3 of the 64mm burr grinders you described will not provide any significant improvement in taste over the Vario
I was under the impression that bigger were the burrs, the better it was and Vario has only 54mm burr.
But the main reason why I dont want to rely only on the Vario is in your answer to GDK
I've given up on my Vario for the same reason. It sticks. I waste WAY to much premium coffee trying to get back to my original settings. I cleaned it all out seveal times and did the little lever excercise thing, but no difference.
For me, the Vario could probably be a good backup for a Mazzer Sj or maybe a Ceado E7.
Now, from what I have seen, the Ceado seems to be an improved Mazzer SJ, doing a cleaner job and with a solid warranty. I don't realy care about its nice retro look and I'm not even sure it will look good beside the Mini. But I'd like to see it beside a nice Elektra lever machine :grin: Do the improvements worth $250 more ? Sure, we could debate about it. And now, I could have it from Idrinkcoffee at $900. Not so bad I think. And the good news now, there is a short hopper coming with the next delivery.

Yes, I'm still hesitant because it is not as renowned as Mazzer and if I was willing to put a little more money, I could have a SJ electronic at a very good price (Idrinkcoffee again). But am I willing ?
Some of you seems to think I have big money to squander. I'd like it, but it is not my reality. And if I consider all the money I already spent (the Mini is not cheap), It's kind of normal if I want to drink the better shots the beast can extract. And as I see it, the Vario has some limitations with consistency and it is worst when I change the settings. So I'm now ready to experiment something not radically better but just more reliable shot after shot. That's my point.
Endo

Re: Ceado E7

Post by Endo »

If you can't make up your mind, I think a very good option for you might be to buy a used SJ off E-bay. They are easy to find for $350 and you could always re-sell it if you don't like it, or even sell it and upgrade to a new one later if you wish. Most you could lose is $100. Heck, you could even make money re-selling it in Canada. Nice little sand and paint job and voila.

To be honest, I think you need to step it up to a least a Mazzer Major or a conical to see ANY difference over a Vario. You are essentially adding only commercial durability by upgrading to a 64mm Mazzer or equivalent.
JohnB

Re: Ceado E7

Post by JohnB »

Abnuceals wrote: And now, I could have it from Idrinkcoffee at $900. Not so bad I think. And the good news now, there is a short hopper coming with the next delivery.
The same grinder is currently $750 from ROASTe.com
michael
God Shot
Posts: 214
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2008 9:30 am

Re: Ceado E7

Post by michael »

i know im in a minority here, but i like the mazzer e grinders even with the grind retention issues, large footprint and price 8)
Endo

Re: Ceado E7

Post by Endo »

michael wrote:i know im in a minority here, but i like the mazzer e grinders even with the grind retention issues, large footprint and price 8)
I'll admit I'm a Mazzer guy too, but what is it specifically you like about the e Mazzers? Is it the dosing funnel? The timer function? The look? The taste? All perhaps?
Abnuceals

Re: Ceado E7

Post by Abnuceals »

Slawek from Idrinkcoffe just told me there will be a price drop for the Ceado E7. So, I have no interest to take the plunge right now and I should wait a little in order to benefit of a better price. But in the other hand, if there is a significant price drop, it's maybe not a good news for my future investment. I now realize the resale of the Ceado will be much harder than Mazzer's.
Michael (and other Mazzer guys), I'd like to hear about your experience with the SJ e and specifically about the retention issue. I thought doserless grinders had a better score than doser grinders in this area.
Endo

Re: Ceado E7

Post by Endo »

There is a antistatic screen over the chute, otherwise it's the same chute. You can simply remove it if you wish, so I think this is a non-issue. To remove the grounds, you simply use a small brush to sweep it out. This is the beauty of the planar burr grinders.
Abnuceals

Re: Ceado E7

Post by Abnuceals »

Slawek from Idrinkcoffe just told me there will be a price drop for the Ceado E7
Sorry, it's my mistake. Slawek was talking about the E37 that he compares himself to the SJ e. Considering IDrinkcoffee sells the E37 $500 more than the SJ e, unless there is a huge price drop, I think it's still better to buy the original than the copy. With those facts in mind, to buy a SJ e at $1199 could be a real bargain.
Endo

Re: Ceado E7

Post by Endo »

Yes. The eSJ at Idrinkcoffee is a bargain at $1200 (compared to other retailers). But since a regular SJ goes for about $700 in the US, and a used on can be had for $350 on E-bay, the general opinion is that the "e" grinders from Mazzer in general are a rip-off. After all, your only getting a LED timer for a lid and a simple stainless funnel (which should actually be CHEAPER than the doser if you think about it).

I actually prefer having the seperate Gralab 450 timer. If it breaks or gets dropped, it's simply another $50 on E-bay and not a $500 Mazzer part.
Mazzer SJ and Gralab 450
Mazzer SJ and Gralab 450
IMG_1230 (433x640) (325x480).jpg (97.28 KiB) Viewed 50212 times
Abnuceals

Re: Ceado E7

Post by Abnuceals »

and a simple stainless funnel (which should actually be CHEAPER than the doser if you think about it)
Endo, I know exactly what you mean... It was my first thinking last year when I was searching for a duo of coffee machine and grinder. Why in the world doserless grinders should cost more than doser grinders with a fancier technology ??? It's probably just a question of supply and demand in a third wave coffee marcket. If some peoples (as I am probably) are willing to spend $1000 on a small kitchen appliance (let's be simplistic :lol: ) You can sell them anything...
I realize my quest is not ended and I have a lot of consideration to weigh up... But as I said earlier, all that coffee thing is a hobby (a nice and fancy hobby) and this process I am in is part of the game. And I have no intention to leave the game.
Endo

Re: Ceado E7

Post by Endo »

Abnuceals wrote:I realize my quest is not ended and I have a lot of consideration to weigh up... But as I said earlier, all that coffee thing is a hobby (a nice and fancy hobby) and this process I am in is part of the game. And I have no intention to leave the game.
It's a serious hobby for me as well. I change gear all the time, and I don't think that will change. Although I'm a bit different in that my quest is not always towards the more expensive gear. I'm currently more into coffees and roasting, and my goto gear is my SJ and my Cremina (a setup you can find used on E-bay for under $1000). My $2000 Vivaldi has been in storage for the last 2 weeks. :cry: ...but I'm sure I'll want to start it up again the next time I have a dinner party.

"Coffee's a journey, not a destination!"
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slo
Barista
Posts: 419
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 6:51 pm
Location: Montreal, Canada

Re: Ceado E7

Post by slo »

Now Endo, if you can find me a decent Cremina plus a working SJ for under $1000.00 I would be all over it!!! Have you looked at the prices lately? SJ do not sell for under $300.00 and Creminas not under$1200.00. And this is not so recent.

The market for used stuff is being monitored by so many people that good deals are very few and far between...
Vivaldi II, Multiple (a collection really) Lever machines
Currently on deck grinders: Mythos and MXKR
Backup grinders: Robur, Major.
Toper Cafemino Electric and Poppery 1 roaster

I have a serious problem ... Can you guess what?
Endo

Re: Ceado E7

Post by Endo »

slo wrote:Now Endo, if you can find me a decent Cremina plus a working SJ for under $1000.00 I would be all over it!!! Have you looked at the prices lately? SJ do not sell for under $300.00 and Creminas not under$1200.00. And this is not so recent.

The market for used stuff is being monitored by so many people that good deals are very few and far between...
Not true. You just need to be patient. Here's a beautiful 87 cremina 10 years younger that mine that sold for $640 only 1 week ago. And I have many example of SJ's selling for around $250 as well.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/290616462591?ss ... 1438.l2649

and here's another selling for $760 a day earlier.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/260867226413?ss ... 1438.l2649
JohnB

Re: Ceado E7

Post by JohnB »

Endo wrote: To remove the grounds, you simply use a small brush to sweep it out. This is the beauty of the planar burr grinders.
:roll: Really & how is this any different then sweeping out the chute of a conical burr grinder? You'll be pleased to know that I dragged my SJ out of retirement the other day to help tone down the citrus in a blend I was playing with. I'm going to leave it out for now so I can play flat burr/conical burr with different blends & S/Os.
User avatar
slo
Barista
Posts: 419
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 6:51 pm
Location: Montreal, Canada

Re: Ceado E7

Post by slo »

I stand corrected... :oops:
The thing is that I search on Ebay.ca and it only picks up on the auctions where shipping to Canada is offered. I know that there are a lot more being offered on Ebay.com but most of the request I made for a US only listing to be sent to Canada was flat out refused.
What I do not understand is that your second example should have showed up on my Cremina search because Canada is offered... I would have bid on that one... :evil:
I guess that I am not using the search and notice tools correctly. :mrgreen:
Vivaldi II, Multiple (a collection really) Lever machines
Currently on deck grinders: Mythos and MXKR
Backup grinders: Robur, Major.
Toper Cafemino Electric and Poppery 1 roaster

I have a serious problem ... Can you guess what?
Endo

Re: Ceado E7

Post by Endo »

JohnB wrote:
Endo wrote: To remove the grounds, you simply use a small brush to sweep it out. This is the beauty of the planar burr grinders.
:roll: Really & how is this any different then sweeping out the chute of a conical burr grinder? You'll be pleased to know that I dragged my SJ out of retirement the other day to help tone down the citrus in a blend I was playing with. I'm going to leave it out for now so I can play flat burr/conical burr with different blends & S/Os.
I've read the conical K10 normally retains 5g. Although I understand you did some mods to the chute to reduce this.

I've done some side-by-side conical/planar tasting (but never with my own gear). I can't ignore the consistancy of the big conicals, but the 64mm planars still compare very well I find (especially for some coffees). I'll be interested to hear how your old SJ compares to your K10. Put don't get to attached.....Abnuceals might be interestd in buying it! :smile:
Abnuceals

Re: Ceado E7

Post by Abnuceals »

Put don't get to attached.....Abnuceals might be interestd in buying it! :smile:
Cool ! I have a representative who works for me on S1 Forum ;-)
JohnB

Re: Ceado E7

Post by JohnB »

Endo wrote:I've read the conical K10 normally retains 5g. Although I understand you did some mods to the chute to reduce this.

I've done some side-by-side conical/planar tasting (but never with my own gear). I can't ignore the consistancy of the big conicals, but the 64mm planars still compare very well I find (especially for some coffees). I'll be interested to hear how your old SJ compares to your K10. Put don't get to attached.....Abnuceals might be interestd in buying it! :smile:
The K10 chute doesn't retain anything if you sweep it out, same as an SJ which is what we were taking about. The SJ chute packs full of grounds & requires more sweeping then the Majors I owned which blew the grounds out into the doser. Any K10 grounds retention would be in the burr chamber after sweeping the chute, same as an SJ. With my chute mod there is smoother flow through the chute but the best thing is I can easily reach right into the burr chamber with the brush & sweep that out also. No bent brushes required, clear line of sight unlike the Mazzers.

The SJ mutes or just doesn't bring out much brightness (citrus/fruit) in most blends. Great if you are simply after chocolate/caramel flavors & good if the blend/Single Origin is too bright but disappointing otherwise. Don't get me wrong it is a nice grinder but I definitely prefer working with the K10.
Endo

Re: Ceado E7

Post by Endo »

JohnB wrote:
Endo wrote:I've read the conical K10 normally retains 5g. Although I understand you did some mods to the chute to reduce this.

I've done some side-by-side conical/planar tasting (but never with my own gear). I can't ignore the consistancy of the big conicals, but the 64mm planars still compare very well I find (especially for some coffees). I'll be interested to hear how your old SJ compares to your K10. Put don't get to attached.....Abnuceals might be interestd in buying it! :smile:

The K10 chute doesn't retain anything if you sweep it out, same as an SJ which is what we were taking about. The SJ chute packs full of grounds & requires more sweeping then the Majors I owned which blew the grounds out into the doser. Any K10 grounds retention would be in the burr chamber after sweeping the chute, same as an SJ. With my chute mod there is smoother flow through the chute but the best thing is I can easily reach right into the burr chamber with the brush & sweep that out also. No bent brushes required, clear line of sight unlike the Mazzers.
I guess you've already realized I meant to say the burr chamber grounds retention and not the chute. The planar Mazzers do a good job of cleaning out the chamber using their carrier sweepers. The conical burr chambers can retain a lot of coffee here and can be difficult to clean out. If your mod fixes this then the K10 is definitely a grinder I should be considering.

The price for the K10WBC was $1250 for a while at CCS, but the price has since gone up and the lowest I can find it in Canada is about $1700, and this is a bit too step for me right now.
JohnB wrote: The SJ mutes or just doesn't bring out much brightness (citrus/fruit) in most blends. Great if you are simply after chocolate/caramel flavors & good if the blend/Single Origin is too bright but disappointing otherwise. Don't get me wrong it is a nice grinder but I definitely prefer working with the K10.
I tend to prefer the "chocolate" blends. My lever Cremina already brings out more clarity and brightness compared to the Vivaldi. When I use it with citrus/floral type coffees (e.g. East African blends), I often am overwhelmed, and I'm afraid the conical might make this even more so. So I guess that means I'll be sticking with the SJ for the near future at least.
JohnB

Re: Ceado E7

Post by JohnB »

If you prefer the chocolate blends & you think the Cremina is giving too much clarity & brightness I'd say stick with the SJ & don't buy a Microcasa. Speaking of levers I'm definitely looking forward to playing with the Strega. It's going to be a long two months.
comrade

Re: Ceado E7

Post by comrade »

Endo,

Slawek at idrinkcoffee does price match with CCS. He did with my Vivaldi.
Abnuceals

Re: Ceado E7

Post by Abnuceals »

Slawek at idrinkcoffee does price match with CCS. He did with my Vivaldi
I didn't know he was matching american prices... Except for the SJ e, american prices are always lower than canadian's. I will ask him, maybe I coud have something better corresponding with my budget. Only for the K10, there is a $243 difference between US and canadian price and for the K8 fresh there is a $298 difference between US and canadian prices. By the way, I didn't see any comments about the K8 fresh. It has 83mm burrs, it's doserless and has all the electronics you can dream of. It seems very similar with the Mazzer Major's with a lower price. Any comments about this specific Compak ? And finally, if you compare the taste, what's the difference between 64mm and 83mm ?
Endo

Re: Ceado E7

Post by Endo »

Abnuceals wrote: By the way, I didn't see any comments about the K8 fresh. It has 83mm burrs, it's doserless and has all the electronics you can dream of. It seems very similar with the Mazzer Major's with a lower price. Any comments about this specific Compak ? And finally, if you compare the taste, what's the difference between 64mm and 83mm ?
Difference between the SJ and Major in terms of taste is small (I can't tell much difference). The pros and hobbiests will claim they can, but once again, it's important to understand, taste difference are VERY small for the average taster when you move up to a planar grinder with burrs 19mm larger.

The most noteable difference is the shear size of the grinder, and the speed at which it grinds. With the extra burr tip speed, the grounds "shoot" out without much retention in the chute (a nice feature!).

The K8 fresh would be my 1st choice if I was looking for a big burr grinder in the $1300 range. LOTs of cool new timing features...and doserless too. Love the polished aluminum. Still, if taste is you ultimate goal, you are getting close to the big 68mm conicals like the K10 WBC that John has, which are the taste kings. A hard decision!

Of course a used Mazzer Major under $500 would be the best bang for the buck. But they have been rather difficult to find lately (much harder than Creminas it seems!)
JohnB

Re: Ceado E7

Post by JohnB »

Endo wrote:
Abnuceals wrote: Difference between the SJ and Major in terms of taste is small (I can't tell much difference). The pros and hobbiests will claim they can, but once again, it's important to understand, taste difference are VERY small for the average taster when you move up to a planar grinder with burrs 19mm larger.

Of course a used Mazzer Major under $500 would be the best bang for the buck. But they have been rather difficult to find lately (much harder than Creminas it seems!)
The grounds from the Major are less prone to channeling, ect. without having to do any WDT. Speaking of used Mazzers I just brought home 5 Super Jollys & 2 Majors along with a bunch of refurb parts. One of the Majors is mine but all the rest will be available once I go through them including a used Major for under $500. :twisted: If anyone is interested they can PM me but I will be placing an ad in the Marketplace section when I'm ready to sell them.
Endo

Re: Ceado E7

Post by Endo »

:lol: YES!!!!!

Save me one of those Majors. I've been looking for one for a while.
maxcr

Re: Ceado E7

Post by maxcr »

I jumped on one of the majors, hopefully will be picking it up next weekend, Very excited to see the difference between my Vario and the massive Major!
Abnuceals

Re: Ceado E7

Post by Abnuceals »

I finally received my new grinder yesterday.
And the winner is (drum roll please), coming from nowhere (sorry but originally it was not on my wish list), the Compak K8.
It is a huge machine with huge burrs. I think it could easily be compared to a Major at a fair price (John at Zcafe did a great job for me).
Surely I'd appreciate to buy a K8 Fresh but it was way out of my budget but if you remove all the bells and whistle, what is remaining is the regular K8.
It has been easy to dial (only two shots) and I'm now expecting consistency for the long run (what Vario was not able to do for me). The taste is great, shot after shot (what Vario was not always able to do).
It's my first doser grinder, so I have to learn to live with a little more mess and with a little bit of retention. I presume it's the price to pay for havingsuch a nice grinding.
JohnB

Re: Ceado E7

Post by JohnB »

What is the wattage rating listed on the specification decal on your K8? Chris Coffee lists 270W which would be extremely low for an 83mm burr grinder if correct but 1st-Line shows it as 420w. For comparison the Major (84mm burrs) has a 650w/1600 rpm motor & the Super Jolly (64mm burrs) a 350w/1600rpm motor.

As far as doser mess goes check out the K10 doser mod threads on H-B. I'm sure the velcro mod/washer swap for the sweepers would work well in your doser & if your K8 uses the same plastic chute outlet as the K10 the chute mod I came up with will make sweeping out the chute much easier.

http://www.home-barista.com/grinders/co ... 14728.html
http://www.home-barista.com/grinders/co ... 18277.html
Abnuceals

Re: Ceado E7

Post by Abnuceals »

Hi John,
I know there is more than one "declination" of the K8, corresponding to specific markets around the world. But I'd be surprised if there would be such a difference into the american or canadian markets. Mine is 420 watt for 1300 rpm and I thought it was the same thing all over America. However, one thing I learned during my search is the fact that Compak had restructured the production of their motor and from now, they offer the same motor everywhere. But there is still new grinders on the market that have been produced earlier. As for an exemple, mine has been produced in 2008. If the resellers have such old inventories, I can understand their interest to sell it at a low price. The price John at ZCafe was doing to me was quite good in my opinion ($990). This grinder is for a life long. I'm not even sure I will ever wear out the burrs...
Another thing I learned in my quest : a good commercial grinder is probably the most difficult consumer good to buy. First, It's very hard to find a place where you can try it; next, the information are not equally distributed (profusion of infos about the Mazzers and only a few things for the rest). I bought a motorcycle this last summer (much more expensive than a grinder) and it was much much much easier to find information before I made my final choice. Now I realized how small, specific and hyper specialised is the coffee market. Just for fun I'm lurking on the lever espresso machine's side. Ouch ! :-? Lot of months in front of me for dissecting all infos. But isn't the beauty about our hobby ?
And finally, thanks John for the links. I'll check that.
JohnB

Re: Ceado E7

Post by JohnB »

What motorcycle did you buy?
Endo

Re: Ceado E7

Post by Endo »

Abnuceals wrote:Just for fun I'm lurking on the lever espresso machine's side. Ouch ! :-? Lot of months in front of me for dissecting all infos.
Be careful ! Coffee is not a hobby....it is several expensive parallel hobbies. It starts off all "innocent like" with an expensive $20 blend (or a $2 shot of espresso in Naples Italy 15 years ago, in my case).

Next thing you know you have a single boiler home expresso machine, then an HX, then a DB, then a commmercial grinder, a Titan grinder, more tampers, a roaster, lever machine.......AHHHHHHHH!!!!

$20 can become $10000 very easily. :shock: My epiphany was when I got my Cremina and I learned I can get what I was originally looking for (that glorious shot in Naples) with simply a used $700 Cremina off E-bay, a $300 used Mazzer and a $20 bag of Toscano.
Abnuceals

Re: Ceado E7

Post by Abnuceals »

The bike I chose is a Kawa Vulcan 900. Neither too small or too big, just perfect for a new (but almost senior) biker.
Are you a biker, John ? Maybe did I see you on a bikers forum ?

Endo, what a paradox you are living... Spending so much money in such luxury gear and finally discover that your happiness lie in simplistic equipment.
In my case, I did not meet my epiphany yet. At this moment, I'm more afraid about the doghouse but it's another story... And I also understand that it is not only a hobby, maybe a way of life. We should open a philosophical thread about our motivations in spending so much money in our quest for the god shot.
JohnB

Re: Ceado E7

Post by JohnB »

Abnuceals wrote:The bike I chose is a Kawa Vulcan 900. Neither too small or too big, just perfect for a new (but almost senior) biker.
Are you a biker, John ? Maybe did I see you on a bikers forum ?
I've been riding motorcycles since 1965 & have owned over 60 different bikes so far. I've ridden throughout the U.S., Canada & northern Mexico on a number of different cross country trips & rode through a nice chunk of Europe back in 1990. My wife is a long time rider with over 300,000 miles on BMWs & we share 8 Italian & German motorcycles currently. BMW twins ranging from 1973-2002, Ducati 907ie, Moto Morini 3.5 Sport, Aprilia Futura & our lone Japanese bike a 1989 Honda Transalp that my wife bought me for my 50th birthday back in 2000.
Abnuceals

Re: Ceado E7

Post by Abnuceals »

Very impressive John. And you still have time for coffee ?
As I began riding at 55 (and because I'm not rich, only a poor librarian), I do not expect adding many bikes in my future biker career. I just want to have fun and have some freedom sensations. I'm happy that I began motorcycling at 55. At 20, I was a little bit crazy and I surely had been an organ donnor...
JohnB

Re: Ceado E7

Post by JohnB »

My serious riding days are behind me, too crazy out there now. I'd rather take one of our dogs & go paddling in my kayak or go for a bicycle ride then dodge idiots on cell phones. I still ride the back roads around here when I get the urge. Hopefully you wear a good helmet & full protective gear when you ride. I've survived several bad accidents over the years thanks to my gear.
Abnuceals

Re: Ceado E7

Post by Abnuceals »

You're absolutely right. Not easy to deal with cagers. They don't see the bikers or they don't care anyway. So, even under a hot sun, ATGATT.
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