General Mini Info

[Paulgab]

Hi,

I've recently registered with the forum after lurking in the shadows for a while and plucking up courage to take part!


I'm terribly torn between the VivII and Mini. Plumbing is an issue with the normal Viv and so would it would have to be run via Flojet. One of your colleages, Ericc has been very generous with help and advice for the VivII via email but I wondered whether any of you guys had opinions between the two.
If I am being completely rational, I think the Mini is the more practical solution, but I am concerned I will regret not having the rotary pump and 'full' VivII over time!
Any comments would be gratefully recieved.

Cheers,
Paul

[Niko]

Welcome out of lurking!
Nice to have you aboard, Paul.

I will have to think about this one...

[Paulgab]

Thanks.

As I said, any opinions gratefully recieved.
I'm torn in both directions.

[jmcphail]

Hi Paul,

When I decided to get the V2 I already knew that plumbing and rotary pump were "must have" features for me. Now that I'm actually using the machine, I can't imagine *not* having those features. This is my first "real" espresso machine, so I don't have a basis for comparison. I'm as new as new can be with my V2, but I already know that the final frontier with espresso is *me* developing my skills, and that will be true with either machine I think.

I think I would choose the FLojet/water bottle solution in your position, but I've never used a FLojet and it adds another level of complexity and maintenance that is concerning. But it will give you options later when circumstances change.

Just my two cents, good luck with your decision! I don't think you can really go wrong either way. There seem to be a lot of happy Mini owners, too, so maybe it's really more about what will fit best with your circumstances now and in the future?

[Paulgab]

From the point of view of machine performance, does the rotary make a big difference?

[jmcphail]

My understanding is that a rotary pump is quieter than a vibe pump, but that there are no differences in the cup.

[MDL]

I have never used the mini or a flowjet so my comments are strictly based upon my experience with the VII since the first week of April 2007.

Having the machine plumbed in is fantastic; no need to worry about filling or cleaning a tank! It is also great to have the rotary pump compared to the noisy vibe pump that I lived with for years with my old Gaggia.

Plumbing with the John Guest fittings is really easy. I suggest that you give a lot of thought to creative ways that you could run the plastic tubing and achieve a plumbed in solution so that you can avoid the flowjet.

My water supply follows the connection to my dishwasher, goes under the dishwasher and comes out a front corner. It then follows under the toe kick of the base cabinets to the end where it becomes "visible" and runs up the side of the end of the cabinets to the machine that is at the end. You see the braided stainless tube that connects to the VII but I don't mind that.

From what everyone has said the mini is a great machine that will make coffee that is equal to the VII. I can't imagine paying that much and not having direct plumbing and a rotary pump, but that is just me. If it is the mini or nothing I'd take the mini for sure.

Mark

[Paulgab]

That certainly makes sense.

[Niko]

Now that I've had a night to think about it...

It's really a tough choice but I think the Mini is a fantastic machine for those where plumbing is really NOT and option whatsoever, period. If you have no way of plumbing a VII, wether it's an apartment or a house you don't own or drilling a hole into granite is not an option, there's no reason not to get a plumbed in VII. If you have running water, these days all homes do unless you live in 1865 - there's no reason not to consider a plumbed espresso machine. The rotary pump thing is overrated in my personal opinion - I haven't noticed better coffee because of it, sure it's noisier but so what? As of now, the Mini cannot be plumbed in so if your situation changes in the future, you're out of luck for easily adding that feature. The VII on the other hand, can be plumbed into a FloJet, which is sort of a pour over but you'll still have hoses to deal with - the Mini would take care of this in a cleaner fashion.

My advice would be, if you can't plumb in for any reason - get the Mini. Don't use an excuse like "I can't plumb it 'cause I don't know how...."
Anyone can do it, it's that simple if you plan ahead.

[Paulgab]

Thanks for your help everyone!

Are there any Mini owners that would like to have an input and save me some money?

[Niko]

I forgot to add one more thing about the Mini, you can take it anywhere so it can be the ultimate party machine. Just plug it in, add water and you're ready to rumble - plug 'n play almost like a Mac (only you don't add water).

Look at how you plan to use it:
1. Is plumbing an option right now (if not, is it in the near future)?
2. How many drinks per day?
3. Do you want to be able to move the machine to different locations?
4. Do you make a lot of Americanos? Larger steam boiler would help here.
5. Do you mind the sound of a vibe pump?

From the point of view of machine performance, does the rotary make a big difference?

From my understanding, a rotary pump can run all night and forever - so if you plan on making copious amounts of drinks for parties 5 nights per week, then by all means go for the VII.
A vibe pump needs rest, kind of like some grinders need 1 minute recovery times for every 30 seconds of operation, or something like that - I don't know the exact numbers but they do get overloaded unlike a rotary.
But like I said earlier, do not let the pump type make your final decision. And besides, my QuickMill vibe pumped machine party'd pretty hardy in its day.

[Mario]

OK. I will add a comment from the Mini side. I have the mini with the tank. It is positively no hassle at all to fill. At the beginning of the day I fill the tank. You remove the tank from the machine, hold under running water and replace - takes all of 60 seconds. I've never had to refill except once when I had a party and pulled about 50 shots in one night. Certainly regular clean up and maintenance takes far longer than filling the tank. Plus you can fill it with spring water if you want. I guess you can do that with a flow jet too but the flow jet just seems like such a hassle. Really if you can't do plumb in I would just get the Mini rather than messing with a flowjet. The vibe pump and its noise is a non-issue. I like the flexibility of knowing I can move the machine if I decide to. Plus I did not have to cut into our tile counter top. I realize a lot of people who have the plumb in say they cannot imagine not having it but I feel the opposite. Having the Mini I can't really imagine how important the plumb in is other than the 60 seconds it saves you each day.

[Paulgab]

Thanks Mario.
Is the build quality of the two very similar?

If I'm this much of a nuisance choosing, imagine what I'll be like when I've bought one!!

[Mario]

It seems to be pretty much the same build quality. Really I don't think you can go wrong either way. They are both excellent machines and I've not heard of anyone who regretted their purchase of either type machine.

[mgwolf]

Hi, may's well chime in. I've had a Mini about a month. We have a high mineral content in our water (even after softening) so I got a Mini so I would not have to run tap water through it and need to descale it frequently. The vibe pump is not particularly noisy, probably about the same as my Mazzer grinding beans. Build quality is good and same as V2. The steam boiler is smaller, but the thing puts out so much steam, I can't believe it. Very easy to fill the reservoir - easier than a pourover. The main issue is if you want a rotary pump. One small unexpected thing was the steam control on the Mini is a lever which is very hard to adjust - it's either on or off, pretty much. I would have much preferred the knob on the V2 which I'm sure is easier to use. That said, it's still pretty easy to get good microfoam, even on small amounts of milk (4 oz). Suspect you'd be happy with either one. Michael

[Paulgab]

Thanks for all your help everyone. I think I've got a lot of thinking to do. It's too much money to get it wrong!

[eprolix]

I'm a recent convert to the VII. I chose it for many reasons but two important features were the ability to plumb it in and the rotary pump. My previous machines where pour-overs with vibe pumps.

I will never go back.

But at the risk of repeating what's already been said, you have to look at what is possible as far as plumbing and how you intend to use the machine. For me, the VII was a complete luxury purchase, so I wasn't willing to sacrifice any of the features I wanted.

[caf4brains]

As a new Mini owner who agonized a bit over the question of VII or Mini I can advise that you go with the little voice in your head. Well, choose the little voice that tells you what you want to hear, because if you do something different you'll be second-guessing yourself for years!

After reading the conversations on this board you've probably concluded that both machines are fantastic, the support is super, and make espresso that is so fine!

[Paulgab]

Thanks guys.

After much agonizing, I've just taken delivery of a VII!

Thanks to everyone for taking the time to help. (particuarly Ericc who I have been pestering via email).

[jmcphail]

Woo hoo! Congratulations!

[PBL]

Absolutely fantastic choice. The plumbed in Vivaldi makes you forget all those non-plumbed machines. I bought mine at Christmas and relaced an older Spidem machine. No comparison for the coffee, no comparison for the performance and with the plumbed in, the only task (besides keeping the disk and screens squeeky clean) is emptying and cleaning out the large drip tray once in a while. :D :D

[coffeeowl]

Me happy too! :)

[themenace]

I too just ordered my "mini and mini" combo last Monday and should be in seventh heaven soon. My wife and I travel in a motorhome, camp, visit friends and relatives, and needed a machine that was portable to move with us nomatter where we are or where we're going----could not find a better choice than the mini. We like good strong espresso but have not ground our own beans before-----any recommendations out here in the northwest for reliable good quality beans that can be purchased easily on an on-going basis to break in our new machine?

[JohnB]

We like good strong espresso but have not ground our own beans before-----any recommendations out here in the northwest for reliable good quality beans that can be purchased easily on an on-going basis to break in our new machine?

http://www.49thparallelroasters.com/

[ebohling]

Just wanted to state for the record (for any one else that comes across these comments looking for opinions) that I was one of those that agonized over the VII vs. mini-VII for about a week. I finally decided to get the mini mainly because I did not want to fight my wife over the tiny hole I'd need to put into our beautiful granite countertop...afterall I was lucky enough to get her to agree to buy a new espresso machine (and grinder)...so I wasn't going to press my luck.

So now I've had the machine for well over a month now and have ZERO complaints. I have at least one or two americanos a day, several double espressos and maybe one cap. The large water reservoir last me two days and I fill it...whether it needs it or not. Since owning it, I've already moved it to different countertop locations twice, which I would not have been able to do if I had plumbed it. So for me I couldn't be happier. And coming from the Miss Silvia machine (with small water reservoir) which I replaced daily (if not more), I'm a very happy boy. ;)

I outline all my thoughts on my blog: http://ebohling.com/word/entry/so-whats ... ivaldi-ii/

hth,
--brandon--