Looking at a Mini Vivaldi II

Post general questions about operation of your new Mini here. Due to many similarities with the original VII you should also check the VII forum.
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bigstormgirl

Looking at a Mini Vivaldi II

Post by bigstormgirl »

I'm new here, but heard about this site on CoffeeGeeks. So I figure this would be the best place to ask about the Mini II.

Of all the machines I've looked at (and I've looked at plenty), the Mini II really caught my eye. This would be my first machine ever, so I wanted to buy something that I would keep for years to come and not regret a year down the road. My usage would be 2 to 4 shots a day and steamed milk drinks too. I don't want to plumb, and it will be under a cabinet, so the front access reservoir is a plus. I also like the temperature control and programmed dosing. So my question would be is there any thing that really stands out with this machine vs any machine that you have upgraded from? Also, what is there that you don't like about it that you might change if you could? I know I have a serious learning curve to go through with any machine, but it seems this machine may help me reduce that learning curve a little bit. I will be pairing this with a Vario grinder. If there is a better grinder around that price point, I would love to hear about it too.

I plan on getting a bottomless portafilter with this so I can learn about my extraction issues and a tamper. Is there anything else I should get?

Sorry about all the questions. Thanks.

Cindy
symbology

Re: Looking at a Mini Vivaldi II

Post by symbology »

Hi Cindy and welcome to S1Cafe.

I am new here, having had my Mini for about a month now.

It is a great machine and I am very happy with my purchase.

Some things that I do not like on the Mini.

- Cannot be plumbed in. Some machines are convertible from pour over (tank) to line feed (plumbed in). I wish the Mini had that option.
- I wish it came with lights around the group. The big deep overhang blocks a lot of light from reaching the working area of the S1's. Adding some LED lights in this area makes a big difference.
- Volumetric dosing is nice, but is not 100% accurate and fool proof. I can get it close enough for my wife to easily make her, and her friends some nice lattes.
- I wish it had a warning on the water tank level. You never really get warned that you are running out of water. When it gets low, it just shuts the pump off and turns on an indicator light. MY QM Andreja was nice in that it would give a faint beeping tone when low on water, but it would still work. When empty, it would shut off just like the Mini.

I run the Vario grinder as well, and it is a good grinder. Easy to use, easy to make changes, grinds pretty well. I find the timer is pretty accurate and I use it to control dosing. (I use a scale to monitor my dosing, but do no use it for every shot.) It is nice and short and fits underneath our cabinets. There are other nice grinders, but most are either a little bit more, or 2-3X more.
symbology

Re: Looking at a Mini Vivaldi II

Post by symbology »

Oh yeah, I would suggest you consider the Pre-Infusion chamber for the Mini.
bigstormgirl

Re: Looking at a Mini Vivaldi II

Post by bigstormgirl »

symbology wrote:Oh yeah, I would suggest you consider the Pre-Infusion chamber for the Mini.

Thanks symbology for your welcome and comments. Could you explain to me what the Pre-Infusion does? I can't figure out the purpose of this.


Cindy
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slo
Barista
Posts: 419
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 6:51 pm
Location: Montreal, Canada

Re: Looking at a Mini Vivaldi II

Post by slo »

Welcome to S1 Cafe.

The pre-infusion is a means by which water is applied to the coffee puck with a lower pressure for a certain amount of time before the full pressure of the pump is applied. This in theory, amongst other claims, allows the puck to absorb a little water and presumably swell a little to fill in the voids and fractures. It is all very debatable and debated indeed. One thing that I am sure is that pre-infusion on the Vivaldi II does help my pours and reduce the rate of channeling and spritzers.

On some machines, like the E-61's, there is a spring loaded chamber that "absorbs" the initial volume of water and prevents the pressure to build too much until the chamber is full. This is sometime called pre-infusion, but more often called progressive pre-infusion.

On the VII, the pre-infusion is a duration programmable time delay that allows the water pressure from the street to be applied to the puck before the pump starts. It is a rotary pump so the pressure increases very fast.

On the MIni, there is no electronic time delay but the vibe pump increases the pressure at a slower rate than the rotary pump. This slower rate gives somewhat of a very short progressive pre-infusion. One can purchase an optional spring loaded chamber that can be installed on the group solenoid to perform the same function as the E-61's pre-infusion chamber.

In fact this pre-infusion chamber can be installed on the VII as well as the MIni but I do not know anyone who as done so. In fact I have wanted to try for a long time.

Hope this helps.
Last edited by slo on Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:01 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Vivaldi II, Multiple (a collection really) Lever machines
Currently on deck grinders: Mythos and MXKR
Backup grinders: Robur, Major.
Toper Cafemino Electric and Poppery 1 roaster

I have a serious problem ... Can you guess what?
bigstormgirl

Re: Looking at a Mini Vivaldi II

Post by bigstormgirl »

Thank you slo, that helps alot!
Endo

Re: Looking at a Mini Vivaldi II

Post by Endo »

I owned a Krups, then Silvia and than an Anita. With every mchine I was looking to upgrade to something better.

On my journey, I realized there are a bunch of good machines stacked up in the $1500 to $2500 range. After that, there is a HUGE void where very few better machines exist. And then you make the jump up to what I call "the crazy zone". These are machines in the $6500 to $8000 range like the GS/3, Synesso and Speedster.

Since I couldn't justify spending my kids education money on 1.5 oz of pleasure once or twice a day, the upper limit was pretty much set for me. In my mind, a double boiler is the only way to go. So that left me with either the Vivaldi or Alex Duetto 2 (both excellent machines). The Alex Duetto 2 was not available when I was looking, so I went with the Vivaldi. If I was to pick today, I may have gotten the Alex, but it would be a close call and I'm sure either would do.

What do I like best over the other machines (like all the HX E-61 clones)? The list is huge so it's a no brainer:

- temperature control
- volumetric dosing
- brilliant design and part quality
- ETL approval for commercial use
- 2 year warranty
- Chris Coffee support
- low power usage
- ability to switch off steam boiler when not required
- incredible steam power
- on and on it goes....

What don't I like?

- sealed boiler unit on Mini (cannot descale)
- no steam pressure control
- non-standard 53mm portafilter (not well suited for updosing and triples)
- cold nose requires 2 warming flushes
- 1980's style LEDS rather than LCD panel
- expensive timer ($200!!)
- day one issues (like leaks, rust and metal shavings in the lines)
bigstormgirl

Re: Looking at a Mini Vivaldi II

Post by bigstormgirl »

Endo, you can't descale it? I had no idea about that! Wouldn't that be an issue down the road? That worries me!
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GDK
God Shot
Posts: 166
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:06 pm
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Re: Looking at a Mini Vivaldi II

Post by GDK »

Endo, you summed it up well. I tried the Alex Duetto 2 quickly and the shop owner himself was concerned with build quality a bit. While we were locking the portafilter in place, the whole group head was turning a bit thus bending the face panel - something that did not happen on the Rockets. The small PID display, as with most other E61 machines, looks like an afterthought and a toy. Other than that, it looks good and works great.

As far as design goes, there are three types of machines in my book:

- E61 based - shiny chrome giants that definitely draw attention for many but are hard to keep shiny
- Down to business, nice look and quality, convenience and practicality first - Vivaldi is that 100%
- ... and there is this - a true piece of art (not just a shiny box), which seems to have a great balance of it all, though it does not come with one group head:

http://www.laspaziale.com/S40_SELETRON_ ... LCOME.html
Endo

Re: Looking at a Mini Vivaldi II

Post by Endo »

bigstormgirl wrote:Endo, you can't descale it? I had no idea about that! Wouldn't that be an issue down the road? That worries me!
Well.....yes and no. It IS a sealed unit, so you can't open it up and physically descale it like the maxi. But, you CAN add a descale solution once a year and open a drain plug on the bottom to let it drain out (this is what I do). And to be honest, this is what most espresso machine owners do anyway (if at all).

The Mini steam boiler was designed as a low cost, sealed and disposible welded stainless unit, unlike the expensive brew boiler unit which has a removable cap on the back. You need to replace the whole steam boiler if say the heater goes. That said, it's not really SO bad since a whole new boiler is about $190 (about the same as the bloody timer!) It's not a too crazy a design philosophy actually, but some die-hard "do-it-yourselfers" who enjoy taking things apart might not like it.
expy98

Re: Looking at a Mini Vivaldi II

Post by expy98 »

GDK wrote: - ... and there is this - a true piece of art (not just a shiny box), which seems to have a great balance of it all, though it does not come with one group head:

http://www.laspaziale.com/S40_SELETRON_ ... LCOME.html
which has "controlled thermal differential .5C"...
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