Day (week) one problems and solutions

Did you have a bad Day One "Out-of-Box" Experience? Ask about it here then later report back with your final resolution.
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slo
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Day (week) one problems and solutions

Post by slo »

Hello everyone.

Hello everyone.
This is my first post on the site. Been reading for a while though. I am not a newbee to espresso per say but I am still on the steep of the learning curve so bear with me, please.
Well anyway I am writing this to give everyone a bit of my experience with openning the box of a brand new Vivaldi II. This text may in term help someone out there.
I received it 4 weeks ago and started making coffees 3 weeks ago. I was waiting for a completed installation to post a comprehensive list of issues and solutions...
Day one I received the box. It was double boxed and shipped via Purolator. The box didn't have any sign of damage so I think that they were careful with it. I bought it from a Canadian web company (Espresso planet, a.k.a Supramatic), They get it from Chris Coffee (CC), obviously since it is a Vivaldi II. For the Canadians out there, with their reward point system, very good service and the occasional rebates, this is a good option for purchasing espresso stuff.
So, back to the day one, I opened the box. Everything looks good, I put it on the counter where my previous machine was... First shock, it is big! :shock: An upgrade in every sense of the word :). Plan for a good 8 inches on top of the Vivaldi's 16 inches in order to be able to use the steam arm on the left side. I had not! :oops: So I had to change the location of the grinder from the right of the machine to the left to give me some steaming room.
Second, the stainless steel braided line to hook-up with the water inlet was missing. My vendor didn't have it and they had to order it from CC. I find it bizarre that with so many people theoretically touching the unit, Espresso planet installed the no burn steam arm that I ordered. CC is supposed to quality check and adjust the unit for North American operation and the La Spaziale people put it together and boxed it, nobody noticed the missing tube. :roll: It is not small. Any way, It took about 2 weeks to get the tube in.
Because I couldn`t use it right away I started taking Vivaldi apart. Having read of issues with things coming loose in shipment... I removed all the panels and started checking all the connections, electrical as well as mechanical. Here is what I found:
The electrical connections were pretty much good. A few were not all the way in but none were off or loose. I moved a few wires that were too close to either a hot surface or a moving (vibration) surface.
I made sure that the power mode switch was in 15 amp. I also made sure that the timer switch was in the off position because I do not have the optional timer installed.
As well, I gently bent the pressure gauge capillary tube such that it wouldn’t contact the frame (or anything else for that matter). Also the inlet tube of the volumetric sensor bloc was contacting the top of the pump casing. I also bent it up a bit.
Also I made sure that there was no contact between any tubing and frame or components that could create damage in case of vibration.
The nastiest issue I found was the start-up capacitor mounted on the pump motor was contacting the frame. Already there were signs of wear on the capacitor aluminium casing . The capacitor on my model is not in a plastic casing like all the pictures (from Chas Rimpo on this site) I had seen before. Also the rear end wires are coming straight out the back not to the side. This is not an improvement! Anyway, I removed the capacitor and installed 2 washer between the capacitor and the mounting bracket to move it back away from the frame a bit. Beware, when moving the capacitor back you also move it closer to the back cover. To ensure ample rear wiring clearance, I also rotated the capacitor bracket to about the 2 o’clock position when looking at it from the front of the machine, so that the capacitor is lower and thus increase the clearance in the back.
Finally, the steam arm valve and knob were loose. Probably happened when they installed the no-burn steam arm. I had to remove the rotary knob (just pull on the knob) and tighten the whole assembly.
I then, put the unit back together
I was not willing to wait for the proper water inlet tube so I used clear flexible tubing and a makeshift adapter to connect the water.
The pump inlet thread is female ¼ inch GAS a.k.a. ¼ inch BSPT. This is a European thread that will mate partially with a North American ¼ inch NPT thread and seal if given a lot of Teflon tape. This is the temporary connection that I used while waiting for the proper plumbing line. Do not overtorque the connection to seal it, put more Teflon tape instead! The threads are not the same shape, pitch and dimensions. Over tightening will deform and damage the threads.
With this temporary connection I was able to start making espressos. I will leave my espresso making “debacle” for another post. :blackeye:
I also fabricated a pressure measuring gizmo that mounts on a spare portafilter gives the pressure with a simulated 25 seconds flow rate. This allowed me to readjust both the expansion valve and the group pressure which were both too high (13.5 and 10 bar respectively). Again thanks to Chas and all the other posters for the suggestion and instructions.
Finally, received the stainless steel braided line that is (supposed to be ) supplied with the Vivaldi. It has female ¼ inch BSPP (P for parallel) threaded connections at both ends that rely in a flared contact face to seal, not the thread. This will not make a good seal with a metal NPT thread regardless of teflon. Well maybe it would if you really tighten it until it bottoms but this would damage both threads. CC supplies the braided line with a Plastic John Guest fitting that is, I believe, a ¼ in NPT to JG polymer tube quick connect. As far as I can tell the seal between the JG fitting and the braided line is achieved by deforming the plastic NPT thread. Although it seems to work, I personally don’t feel comfortable with that type of connection.
Nonetheless I worked with it for a while. To “properly” connect the Vivaldi in North America, you need to get an adapter ¼ inch BSPP to whatever you connect to.
My setup to the water softener uses a Parker fluid P/N 4-4FMK4SS stainless steel ¼ in BSPP to ¼ in NPT adapter. Fits like a charm. In all my research into the forums concerning the Vivaldi I couldn`t find anywhere the identification of the threads. Anyway here it is for those that need it.
After a few days of waiting for the boilers to exchange power, because I was on the 15 amp mode, I decided to switch to the 20 amp mode. For this I plug the unit directly on the stove outlet. It can easily take the 20 amp draw. I opened the Vivaldi top cover and flicked the switch. Guess what happened when I put the power back on? All electronic hell broke loose!!! Yes you guess it right, Instead of the power mode switch I flicked the timer switch! A huge thank you to all my predecessors in this because I recognized the symptoms right away based on posts I read on this site. Re-opened Vivaldi and flicked the switches in the right configuration and everything is now smooth sailing. That is not speaking about the coffee making. Man this machine is very different from my previous espresso workhorse.
That’s it for today.
Last edited by slo on Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Vivaldi II, Multiple (a collection really) Lever machines
Currently on deck grinders: Mythos and MXKR
Backup grinders: Robur, Major.
Toper Cafemino Electric and Poppery 1 roaster

I have a serious problem ... Can you guess what?
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chas
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Re: Day (week) one problems and solutions

Post by chas »

Thanks for the great post. Figuring out the thread size and pitch on espresso machines connectors has always been a challenge. It never seems to be documented. How do you figure it out?

You've probably also noticed that the wire colors in your machine don't match the photos either. I don't know if each assembler just gets to use whatever colors they want or if they use the colors of wire they can get the best price on at a given time.
Chas
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slo
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Re: Day (week) one problems and solutions

Post by slo »

Hello Chas.

Really did not pay any attension to the color of wires. Your suggestion on the reason for the color changes seems reasonable to me.

For the thread size, it is tricky to be really sure. I measure both the pitch and outer diameter and try to find a match in the Machinery's Handbook and the internet. The thread dimensions can be very similar and differ in only very discrete dimensions that could prevent a proper fit. There are thread measuring/identifying tools out there, that make it really easy. for my part I just dont do it often enough to justify the expense.

For our specific case I started by the specification sheet of the Vivaldi's Fluid-o-tec pump. They specify either 1/4 inch GAS or 1/4 in NPT, since La Spaziale put a nipple in and that the dimensions matched it was clear that the nipple was 1/4 in GAS. A quick web research and It became clear that GAS is also called BSPT threads. The BSP threads come in either Taper or Parallel with the same pitch and thread shape. From there on, since the hose seals with a flare metal to metal contact, not the threads, then the threads of the hose had to be 1/4 inch BSPP.
Last edited by slo on Mon Aug 15, 2011 8:45 am, edited 2 times in total.
Vivaldi II, Multiple (a collection really) Lever machines
Currently on deck grinders: Mythos and MXKR
Backup grinders: Robur, Major.
Toper Cafemino Electric and Poppery 1 roaster

I have a serious problem ... Can you guess what?
JohnB

Re: Day (week) one problems and solutions

Post by JohnB »

The only issue you mentioned that I experienced was the capacitor bracket (not the capacitor) touching the frame which dramaticly increased the noise level when the motor/pump assy ran. Once I cleared that up it quieted right down. The braided line/JG fitting has been a non issue so far as practically every owner is running that set up with no leakage issues posted in 5 years that I've seen. I've also had the stainless line off & on the machine several times & it seals fine with no teflon tape/no overtightening so I wouldn't worry too much about that end either but thats your call.

You mentioned just pulling the steam knob off? You did have a retaining bolt that had to be removed first??
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Re: Day (week) one problems and solutions

Post by slo »

No. Actually to get access to the retainning nut you have to pull the knob off.

And for the threads. I got the proper adaptor already so no issue.
Last edited by slo on Mon Aug 15, 2011 9:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
Vivaldi II, Multiple (a collection really) Lever machines
Currently on deck grinders: Mythos and MXKR
Backup grinders: Robur, Major.
Toper Cafemino Electric and Poppery 1 roaster

I have a serious problem ... Can you guess what?
JohnB

Re: Day (week) one problems and solutions

Post by JohnB »

slo wrote:No. Actually to get access to the retainning nut you have to pull the knob off.

And for the threads. I gtot the proper adaptor already so no issue.

Depends what you consider the knob I guess. You do remove the rubber cover/sleeve assy. but the knob(base) is held on by the bolt. I only asked because you didn't mention it & considering how they left your steam arm assy (loose) I figured they might have left out the bolt also.
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Re: Day (week) one problems and solutions

Post by slo »

Nope. Nut was there just loose.

One of the last issue I have is the fan. How noisy or not should it be? I hear it clearly. Kind of a winning noise not really loud.

I guess the noise level that is acceptable is the noise level that I am willing to put up with but I'm wondering if putting spacer will remove the noise?

It is a brand new Vivaldi II and I think that a lot of improvment has been made on that front. Anybody got the noise to completly go away?
Vivaldi II, Multiple (a collection really) Lever machines
Currently on deck grinders: Mythos and MXKR
Backup grinders: Robur, Major.
Toper Cafemino Electric and Poppery 1 roaster

I have a serious problem ... Can you guess what?
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chas
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Re: Day (week) one problems and solutions

Post by chas »

If you search for Fan Noise you will see this topic covered in a number of different threads. I completely solved the issue on mine by adding a nut between the fan housing and the chassis. In my case the bolt wasn't long enough to add the extra nuts and still have enough thread sticking through the bottom of the machine to attach the original nuts there. So I just went to the hardware store and bought two longer bolts and four nuts. No more noise.

Previously I had tried a layer of foam tape between the fan and the chassis but it eventually compressed and the noise returned.
Chas
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slo
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Re: Day (week) one problems and solutions

Post by slo »

You mean "no more noise at all from the outside"?

If so, I will put spacers today! :grin:
Vivaldi II, Multiple (a collection really) Lever machines
Currently on deck grinders: Mythos and MXKR
Backup grinders: Robur, Major.
Toper Cafemino Electric and Poppery 1 roaster

I have a serious problem ... Can you guess what?
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Re: Day (week) one problems and solutions

Post by chas »

Do it today!
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Re: Day (week) one problems and solutions

Post by slo »

Wow! What a change. Thanks for the knudge...

The noise wasn't so bad so I though that my Vivaldi was one of the quiet one. I assumed that it was normal and almost left it as it was. :mrgreen:

To all reading this, installing the spacers, indeed putting nuts that thighten the fan body and the frame at the same time,as suggested by Chas, removes COMPLETELY the noise. I had to put my hand under the fan holes to know that it was working. It is weird how I almost got used to the noise and now my brain is searching for it.

When you guys were writing "quieting" the Vivaldi, you should have written "shutting it up"! :grin:

By the way, Chas, looking at the pictures on the site, I saw that one of your early solution was putting foamy pads on the 4 corners of the fan. One thing that is not clear is wether there actually is 4 screws. The outboard ones (closer to the frame), if they exist, are always behind the fan board connector. I mention this because there is only 2 screws on my machine. Also, in your previous intervention (thank you again), you mentionned only getting 2 longer screws. Just curious. Even, if you originally had 4 screws I believe that having only two screws is far more than enough for that job.
Vivaldi II, Multiple (a collection really) Lever machines
Currently on deck grinders: Mythos and MXKR
Backup grinders: Robur, Major.
Toper Cafemino Electric and Poppery 1 roaster

I have a serious problem ... Can you guess what?
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Re: Day (week) one problems and solutions

Post by chas »

There are only two screws. This machine and the chassis was designed for 220V. The 220V machines don't need the fan because the Triac dissipates enough less current that convective cooling through the bottom slots in sufficient.

When they added a fan to the 115V version they just used a couple of holes that happened to line up with the fan housing holes. I think if the chassis bottom had the proper holes cut out for a fan you wouldn't get this noise. Some time in your life you've probably stood in front of a running box fan and heard it suddenly get noisy as you disturbed the airflow. Same thing here. The convective cooling slots partially block the flow. Interestingly some people don't have this issue with their fans. I am guessing that LaSpaz uses different suppliers from time to time. Some of these fans have the issue and some don't.

BTW: Of all the owners that post on this site, in close to 5 years only one person has had the steam boiler triac fail.
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.25 (US 120V)
Mazzer Kony E, Customized Rocky
Hottop P/B
JohnB

Re: Day (week) one problems and solutions

Post by JohnB »

I never had any fan noise issues, in fact I had to listen very closely to comfirm that it even came on. I seem to recall that the most recent fan noise posts on new machines were solved by just loosening the mounts & realigning it over the air holes???
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Re: Day (week) one problems and solutions

Post by slo »

Two things here;

I think that the noise may in fact be partly caused by patially obstructed/disrupted flow due to misalignment of the fan with the air holes. But I also think that the fan body being more or less compressed, when torqued down, may lift the other end and create a vibration of the whole fan not just the impeller. My fan noise was similar to another poster that described it as an "air raid siren" which to me sound like a vibration issue. Whem I first read that description I though that it was a "loud air raid siren", mine was somewhat discrete.

When I reinstalled the fan I noticed that it took very little torque on the nut to squeeze the fan body at the corners. This is because the fan body has slots at the corner perpendicular to the bolts. I can see on the picture on this site, VI vs VII picture shoot, that both Chas Vivaldi fan do have the slots that can see on mine. So my theory may not be so good.

Somehow the screws on my fan were very tigh fitting to the frame holes so realignment would have been minimal if any. Again this seem to indicate that there may be more than one issue at hand.

Chas
chas wrote: BTW: Of all the owners that post on this site, in close to 5 years only one person has had the steam boiler triac fail.
May I ask you are bringing this up? If it is linked to the fan functionality. It means that the fan is doing it job properly even if not being optimally installed. But I am not sure what you mean.
Vivaldi II, Multiple (a collection really) Lever machines
Currently on deck grinders: Mythos and MXKR
Backup grinders: Robur, Major.
Toper Cafemino Electric and Poppery 1 roaster

I have a serious problem ... Can you guess what?
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chas
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Re: Day (week) one problems and solutions

Post by chas »

slo wrote:
May I ask you are bringing this up? If it is linked to the fan functionality. It means that the fan is doing it job properly even if not being optimally installed. But I am not sure what you mean.
Just a random tidbit from the Ministry of Miscellaneous Facts.
Chas
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Re: Day (week) one problems and solutions

Post by slo »

Keep 'em coming! :grin:
Vivaldi II, Multiple (a collection really) Lever machines
Currently on deck grinders: Mythos and MXKR
Backup grinders: Robur, Major.
Toper Cafemino Electric and Poppery 1 roaster

I have a serious problem ... Can you guess what?
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