Beaten up S1 - version?

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Aran
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Beaten up S1 - version?

Post by Aran » Sat May 13, 2017 10:14 am

Great forum all, spent most of last night reading - whoever said sleeping like a baby never had kids.

Just bought a beaten up S1 in the UK for 128 USD, needs a lot of work, not to mention PFs and likely much much more. I'm hoping pump & motor are functioning, hell I hope it has functioning boilers, you can't even see a the pressure gauge in the photo so possible I bought some external parts....
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Also picked up a Super Jolly (think ex-Starbucks) for 94 bucks, looks heavily used but from what I read these are the Toyota Landcruisers of the grinder world, let's hope so.

I'm keen to start planning my refurb but noticed the badge is LaSpaziale not Vivaldi or other, pardon my ignorance but I only found reference of this for prototypes - figure this is European badging - anyone of you kind folks shed any light here?

It seems like a swivel arm with flush tip not a pivot arm BUT the S1 logo is decal not embossed so it sure ain't recent. Just hoping it isn't a hacked up shell...

thanks in advance!,
Aran
S1 1G (TBD), Faema Legend 2G, VBM Replica 2G (E)
Mazzer Royal, Anfim Caimano, Rossi RR45

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chas
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Re: Beaten up S1 - version?

Post by chas » Sat May 13, 2017 11:55 am

Wow. Have you got a project and a half on your hands!

I usually go by the type of gauge and whether the label on the LEDs is in 1C or 5C increments to tell what model it is, but yours has neither. The first S1 Vivaldi generation imported to the US was a dual boiler design that had a single round gauge just for the steam boiler. However, I can tell by looking in the parts manual that there was an earlier single boiler model where the group boiler was also used for steam and hot water. I think the model may have been called the Ricambi. Have you checked to see how many boilers you have?

If you only see one boiler check out the Part Guide on page 29 to see if your boiler attachments look like this:
http://s1cafe.com/s1v1/S1Pix/La_Spazial ... atalog.pdf
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.23 (US 120V)
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Aran
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Re: Beaten up S1 - version?

Post by Aran » Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:41 am

The beast just arrived. So it is a plumbed double boiler version:
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From 2003, model S1. Just that:
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Exterior is beat up; both side panels broken, cup holder screen has been bent. Even the plug is destroyed beyond repair - whole thing looks like it's been run over.

Interior is dirty but that's par for the course, nothing obviously damaged at first glance. I see some PTFE so it's been worked on at least once.
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Next steps:
Full examination
testing if appropriate
Disassemble
Descale & clean
Parts order
Reassemble
Test
Double espresso(feels a long way out at this stage!)
S1 1G (TBD), Faema Legend 2G, VBM Replica 2G (E)
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Aran
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Re: Beaten up S1 - version?

Post by Aran » Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:53 am

Initial testing was pretty positive.

- Auto-fill works, quite noisy but pulls water & appears to stop correctly.
- Group boiler heats up, lights indicating temps
- Steam boiler also heats up
- Water and steam work
- Buttons work
- Water out of group (volume seems large)

No dripping, other than the drain valve.

Other than general maintenance (gaskets, descaling etc..) I'm planning to:
- add a dual pressure boiler gauge
- add start-up timer
- drill out the drain hole at the front of the motor housing

Any other must have (low/medium cost) upgrades?

I'm hesitant to add the new board at this stage.

thanks!
S1 1G (TBD), Faema Legend 2G, VBM Replica 2G (E)
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chas
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Re: Beaten up S1 - version?

Post by chas » Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:39 am

Check out the boiler electrical connections especially on top of the steam boiler. The plastic insulator material tends to get very brittle with age. Also, the bare stranded wire between where it goes into the crimp connectors and where the insulation starts tends to get moisture in it and corrode which eventually leads to failure. I'd check and see if any of those crimp connectors should be replaced.

Also, the part you referred to as the drain valve I think is actually the expansion valve. It is supposed to open when the group boiler exceeds 12 bar as a safety measure, but you mentioned that it is dripping. Given its age you should unscrew it and check out the rubber part inside. It should probably be replaced while you are purchasing other parts. BTW: When it is operating and adjusted correctly it will still drip a few drops each time the group boiler cycles. If you do decide to remove this and change the gasket you will need to readjust it after replacement. You will need a working group pressure gauge for that.
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.23 (US 120V)
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Aran
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Re: Beaten up S1 - version?

Post by Aran » Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:57 pm

Thanks Chas, indeed they were brittle, apologies for the late response.

So I've completely disassembled my S1, cleaned an inordinate amount of scale from the boiler and the pipework, changed gaskets, added a new safety valve, PTFE'd all the connections, drilled out the whole on the motor housing, had the frame resprayed, repaired the thread on group boiler, and then reassembled and rewired.

Unfortunately it won't come out of standby (green light flashing) and the central orange light 18 is dimly flashing and red lights 20 & 21 are dimly lit:
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I can't find this as a specific error in the manual and worry that in my zealousness to clean everything I may have damaged something on the board.

I've tried turning on, rechecked the wiring several times, I've tried to isolate the issue by removing individual components, but no joy.

Any advise / suggestions gratefully welcome,

Thanks!
S1 1G (TBD), Faema Legend 2G, VBM Replica 2G (E)
Mazzer Royal, Anfim Caimano, Rossi RR45

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chas
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Re: Beaten up S1 - version?

Post by chas » Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:32 pm

It sounds like one side of the 230V power line may not not connected correctly so that the machine is trying to run at 115V. That could explain why the lamps are only dimly on.
Chas
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Aran
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Re: Beaten up S1 - version?

Post by Aran » Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:31 am

Thanks Chas. The green light is flashing birghtly, and my multimeter shows 230V when I checked.

I guess I will go thru the electrics again make sure there is nothing obviously wrong.
S1 1G (TBD), Faema Legend 2G, VBM Replica 2G (E)
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Aran
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Re: Beaten up S1 - version?

Post by Aran » Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:53 pm

Well some progress. I now have the two red lights (20 & 21) on solid, with green flashing on light. So group temperature probe issue.
- I swapped the probes around but no change
- Both temperature probes have very high resistance, I only see it at 2M Ω: 0.275 for one and 0.295 for the other (at about 16C)
- Both probes resistance goes down as they heat up
- The group boiler has a resistance of 63.4 Ω, stays constant
- The steam boiler a resistance of 38.0Ω, stays constant
- Thermal breakers are both at 0 Ω, mol
- I also swapped the triacs around but that had no effect either

I assume I should change the probes?
S1 1G (TBD), Faema Legend 2G, VBM Replica 2G (E)
Mazzer Royal, Anfim Caimano, Rossi RR45

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chas
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Re: Beaten up S1 - version?

Post by chas » Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:09 pm

At 16C a good temp probe should be very close to 1060 ohms, but I'm not sure it's time yet to buy new ones.

While the two red lights are supposed to indicate a temp probe failure condition, it should only happen when the machine has been turned on. The blinking green LED means the machine is still in Standby. And when it is blinking no other LEDs should ever be on. Also, if you really had a Group Triac issue being signaled, the green LED would have been lit solid for several minutes and then 20-21 would start blinking.

You definitely have an issue I have never seen nor do I remember anyone ever reporting on the Forum. So I am not sure where to tell you to start troubleshooting.

It sounds like the controller board has a problem. Either the microcontroller is not getting a proper reset when the machine is plugged in or something similar is happening on the control panel or both. No problems we have ever troubleshot on this Forum have ended up being due to a faulty controller board but someone has to be the first. Maybe you are it!
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.23 (US 120V)
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Aran
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Location: Firenze

Re: Beaten up S1 - version?

Post by Aran » Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:37 am

Thanks again Chas.

So I found one issue, there was a bent pin between the control pad connection and controller board. I fixed it put the board back in but it no joy.

Frustrated I played around with the power supply to the control board whilst pressing the on button and lo and behold it reset and then came on and the steam boiler started. Then the red lights (20/21) came on again, solid but whilst on. I remembered I'd switched the triacs and switched them back.

The on switch takes about 5-6s to work and now both boilers come on. Boiler switch works too and the lights track the group temp until set temp is reached.

No pump, water, steam or coffees yet but I shall look into that tomorrow.
I was beginning to lose hope but seems not all is lost!
S1 1G (TBD), Faema Legend 2G, VBM Replica 2G (E)
Mazzer Royal, Anfim Caimano, Rossi RR45

Aran
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Location: Firenze

Re: Beaten up S1 - version?

Post by Aran » Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:01 pm

Great news!

My control panel was filthy inside preventing several buttons working, quick clean with solvent and now all work. A few leaks needed some attention but all fixed and pump is working too. Now have hot water, single & double espresso and steam,.

Had my first espresso today, still need to dial in my beans but was rewarding. Eco mode and Fine tuning temperature adjustment also worked. Still think there are some issues with the electrics but nothing mission critical.

Next steps clean & attach external parts, fix the drip tray, decide on panel replacements & plan some mods.

Thanks a lot Chas for all the help and replies!
S1 1G (TBD), Faema Legend 2G, VBM Replica 2G (E)
Mazzer Royal, Anfim Caimano, Rossi RR45

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